jesomil Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Well, seeing we are doing photos, i cant resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Are any victorians heading to Welshpool on the weekend?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 YES, I am going to Welshpool. So you will see me bumble with Chance and Jenna LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Excellent !!! Its going to be great fun. Are you entering anything? It will be great to see some DOLers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 Well, seeing we are doing photos, i cant resist. oooh nice kelpies! they look like nice strong bodied dogs. my dad always preferred the black and tan because he reckoned the sheep could see their eye more but im a big fan of the red/brown and tan myself. i am so pleased that other people have joined this thread esp people with working koolies, just in these few posts i have got a lot of encouragement that im not doing something wrong with possum but that she is bred to work hard and fast. she is a really brilliant yard dog because of that, the people we have worked with say they would take her to work with them now, she is not scared of anything in close quarters and i think she references me much better. she works well in open space but when we try "second pattern" stuff (sorry technical training speak!! ), which is me behind the sheep and her working to one side, she wants to come round to the top again and i have to be on her a fair bit. i think youre right about the driving jesomil, if i am in front of the sheep she drives beautifully straight into me, or the gate or whatever. having said that, this last weekend we did some great open space work where we got sheep out of a tight corner and took them down across the paddock to the gate together and she didnt get in front of me once. when you only get to work every so often sometimes you really do go forward two steps and back one. but in the padock she has a much better distance as well, which my instructor says is more like a collie. heres another bit to chew on...my instructor said that possum had too much dog for me and not enough for him (he is the aust champ so he is very big on the forceful really strong kelpie) and that part of the issue was that i was a woman and as such had a 'nurturing piece in me' (i love the way he talks about me like im a dog ) that wouldnt let me push her too far. i hate to agree with him but i think there is something in this if only to the extent that i have had graet difficulty finding the right tone of voice to work with possum. to keep her off we were working on a low long growl sound, rather than words. she is extremeley responsive when robert does this to her but tends to ignore me at first until i really hunt her off the sheep and remind her im in charge. part of it is that i cant get my voice low enough, and another part is that i get too emotive and let anger creep in which she thinks is hilarious. do you think there is any difference between male and female handlers with sheep work? (putting on suit now ) !!! ps more pix of dogs please!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) wow im kind of in awe of your dogs persephone! would love to see pix of them. whereabouts are you, by the way? editted to remove quote Edited November 23, 2006 by kylieandpossum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Oh..I do like this thread!We have our own "bush-bred" workers..Koolie predominately,with a helping of kelpie .Will post pics of some of our crew later. At the moment we have a team- mum, daughter , and grand-daughter who work well together Ours are specific to requirements in this part of the world. VERY short coat for coolness and to avoid getting prickles and sticks tangled. LONG legs...they have to run many many miles in the paddocks , and be able to see over bushes and tall grass ( when there is rain) DARK pigmented pads/noses/ear tips/ eyelids where possible, to avoid sun damage, and blisters from the hot sand. "EYE" ..to help control these very strong-willed merinos. Low body sensitivity....don't want sooks deciding that being stepped on or butted is no fun! ;) Also when used for goat yarding, a lack of worry about pain is a must!! Goats don't act in a polite manner at all! GOOD independent thinking...our dogs are sometimes left in sole control of large mobs of sheep for a couple of hours..while humans are off mustering or preparing yards etc. The dogs need to keep calm, and keep the sheep moving in the direction pointed out Also when putting sheep thru yards and races, the dog needs to see what is required..if the sheep are slowing, if a race is too empty... Our dogs are worked according to what they prefer. We have ones which are 90% yard , and some 90% paddock We also have a couple multi-taskers. Our old yard dog of excellence is retired now..sadly..but his son has taken over, and now at age 3 is just starting to show his thinking and reasoning :)He has to be muzzled unfortunately..he hasn't the patience of his dad, and will nip...but is very good at what he does! The property on which they are working at the moment is shearing over 10,000 sheep..so there is a lot of work for everyone!! I do love the look on that "Trim" !! Beautiful approach Persephone, . Saw on another thread you saying you only got mail twice a week, brings back memories for me, mail twice/week, fresh bread once/week (baker only baked Mondays, Wednesdays & Saturdays early morning, so if you got bread on Fridays mail run it was already 2 days old ), no electricity except a generator, gas or kero fridges (which couldnt keep things cold in that heat, let alone freeze anything), no tv etc, party line & operator connected telephone just to name a few. Sorry, very very off-topic there but it's a completely different way of life . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooper Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 do you think there is any difference between male and female handlers with sheep work? (putting on suit now ) !!! As ever, I think it depends on the male or female I've watched Possum with Jenny, who has a deeper voice and commands respect with every dog I've seen her with. And I've watched a bloke with his working-bred kelpie, and his relatively high-pitched voice wasn't getting through to the dog at all. I will say, however, that Charlie Cover at Yass has been heard to say that he's glad there are more women getting involved in sheepherding now because our (generally) gentler approach can work better with some dogs. He's changed some of his habits because of it. I don't think he'd ever admit to having said that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJack Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 enjoying this thread! I have lots of pics of Possum and my Kelpie Kobe and her brother Cobber and Perry (and some of a defiant red cattle dog we shan't name) but my computer at home blew a gasket last night and I can't upload from work. Will see if the gremlins are gone tonight. I know with the voice thing, I have heard Kylie and she can't get low enough to sound growly with the word 'Possum' which is a long soft sound anyway (although she can manage a pretty sharp sounding 'Trent' when she needs to.) I find I sometimes have too much growl with my Kelpie. Less of a problem so far with the herding but more so when I'm at Flyball with the same dog. Trent tells me to stop sounding angry at my dog. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 wow im kind of in awe of your dogs persephone! would love to see pix of them. whereabouts are you, by the way?editted to remove quote ) we are in the bush, NSW..S/W . I will try & find some pics..don't take a lot of the dogs, actually WE got our first Koolie about 25 years ago, I guess.She died young and from an accident,but we were hooked! I guess the thing with our dogs is that they HAVE to want to work, and have the instincts there. If they are not dead keen...well, they will never be 100% dedicated to the job.Yes, they will obey us, but never be 'self-starters', or bring their own thinking into what they do WE had one boy....died a few years ago at 15... he was always called the 'union' dog LOL Wouldn't work happily if it was hot rainy after 5pm too prickly he would just stop, and either get back in a vehicle, or even head home! Mind you, when ON the job...he often was amazing ! Once, he didn't come home for 24 hours...we looked at night...thought he had been snake btten or something whilst working... anyway...he DID make his way home eventually and we went next day...did some tracking, and found he had been with about 6 sheep the whole time! They were 'stragglers'...he found them ( this is the terrific independent bit we like) and unfortunately got a bit mixed in his directions, missing the gate! He stuck with them though, poor boy...wouldn't even come when we called him...then wandered the 5 miles home next day the stories..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Oh...with learning the sheep -herding which some of you are doing...do you actually get to know about what the SHEEP are thinking, and how they are expected to behave in a given situation? I always remember my grandpa teaching us as littlies to watch the sheep..., which one was the leader, which direction they would'break' into, were they hungry, or young, or tired, or 'dog-wise'.....all goes to helping anticipate which commands you need Oh, and btw..have not trained a dog on sheep for AGES...but it is still in the blood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 The funniest thing is i never even heard of Koolies until I saw mine. Mind you I was looking for a Kelpie at the time and was told most assuredly that this was a "Pure bred Kelpie". It just so happens that the daughter of the farmer was selling the excess puppies from his replacement breeding and got the names wrong. As for pure bred Koolie....... well I suppose it's possible, but Koolies being what they are he is as pure as he is gunna get I'd say. I took him to be DNA tested for the register and joined the Koolie Club so I can enter events if he turns out OK as he ages. I will look for some pics I put here when he was 12 weeks old. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 I will try & find some pics..don't take a lot of the dogs, actually ;) no well i imagine they (and you) are too busy working to stand still for some nice portraits!! i have to take along my OH to get pix. the first few times there was a lot of pix of fences and dirt cos possum was too fast to get a shot of WE got our first Koolie about 25 years ago, I guess.She died young and from an accident,but we were hooked!I guess the thing with our dogs is that they HAVE to want to work, and have the instincts there. If they are not dead keen...well, they will never be 100% dedicated to the job.Yes, they will obey us, but never be 'self-starters', or bring their own thinking into what they do WE had one boy....died a few years ago at 15... he was always called the 'union' dog LOL Wouldn't work happily if it was hot rainy after 5pm too prickly he would just stop, and either get back in a vehicle, or even head home! Mind you, when ON the job...he often was amazing ! Once, he didn't come home for 24 hours...we looked at night...thought he had been snake btten or something whilst working... anyway...he DID make his way home eventually and we went next day...did some tracking, and found he had been with about 6 sheep the whole time! They were 'stragglers'...he found them ( this is the terrific independent bit we like) and unfortunately got a bit mixed in his directions, missing the gate! He stuck with them though, poor boy...wouldn't even come when we called him...then wandered the 5 miles home next day the stories..... love the union thing. politically speaking thats my kind of dog! frustrating for the employer i suspect!! robert was telling us about his oldest dog Gin, a red kelpie, whos a great yard dog but has that real independent streak, and one day they were trialling and he pushed her too hard and she just climbed over the fence and walked back to the truck. didnt run away, wasnt scared, didnt hide, jsut turned her back and walked off. im sure if she could have flipped him the bird she would have he said it was the walking away that drove him crazy but youve got to admire a dog like that, so much spirit. thats the line you walk i guess when you breed them strong. i think shes the reason he says he hates red dogs now. speaking of red dogs, jo i cant find any decent ones of a certain red ACD back-chatting, they must all be on your camera/computer...nor any good ones of you and annette...bummer... other than the grey (fawn?) kelpie my dad had called (originally) Smoky, the best dog we ever had on the farm was Ricky (short for ricochet cos he was like a bullet off the walls!) an accidental cross breed from a black kelpie father and a brindle bulliex thing (like tiger, jo) mum. awesome yard dog, could jump up and perch on one fence post, but then one day we were out the back and my mum went off in one direction with him and i went another way, and i got home way before they did and so we went out to look for them and they were sitting by the creek, he had the sheep baled up and was sitting with my mum licking her neck where she'd been bitten by a wasp. amazing dog. was my mums favourite forever after! how does that happen in a cross breed?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Love that story about rick When I left school many years ago...I worked at home with the sheep. My little mini foxiexwire-hared dachsie was one of the BEST yard/truck dogs we had!! I trained her on a fishing rod/line for the early stuff...she just adored it all!! She couldn't jump onto the backs, but in a tight-packed yard would beg to be thrown up! She would run over their backs , barking, and if she found one which seemed , to her, to be a bit slack..she would start digging , usually just behind its ear, and barking at the same time!!!!! Thank goodness I have to go do some cooking now..or I would be story telling still...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 Oh...with learning the sheep -herding which some of you are doing...do you actually get to know about what the SHEEP are thinking, and how they are expected to behave in a given situation?I always remember my grandpa teaching us as littlies to watch the sheep..., which one was the leader, which direction they would'break' into, were they hungry, or young, or tired, or 'dog-wise'.....all goes to helping anticipate which commands you need ;) Oh, and btw..have not trained a dog on sheep for AGES...but it is still in the blood! yes kylie is killing herself laughing because its such a great question. for the first year maybe of our training it was like, sheep, what sheep! about two months ago i stopped looking at my dog all the time and started to focus on the sheep. things have been a little easier since, they tend not to run away when im not looking. and yet when i was a kid it was all about the sheep, you just assumed the dog would know what to do. now because ive been doing dog training in other things, herding could easily become a dog training exercise, so i am trying really hard to remember its sheep herding. i guess thats why its so hard to give people 'training advice' because its not really something that can be trained in that technical sense. i guess this is what i meant before when talking to jesomil about commands etc, that it seems, for me, to be about having the right relationship with my dog. ok she doesnt know the words i use but if i can set her up for the right behaviours then i can start attaching words and if she listens to me, we see results. one day i think it might click together. when you dont do it every day of your life theres so much to learn! like i only just learnt on the weekend that the sheep might flick their ears when they're thinking of stopping and this might be a good time to call my dog off, rather than waiting for them to stop and letting her over-run. do you have any secrets in that dept persephone by the way, im not getting any house work done today because of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I am always being told to watch the sheep and learn to read them. Sometimes I don't think I am learning fast enough. Perry rarely barks at the sheep (or anything else) and she is not into body slamming, she just expects them to do as she wants and on very odd occasions will go in for a quick encouraging nip if they don't move fast enough. She is much better at working in a bigger ring than in the small beginner's ones. I do think it is tone of voice rather than gender which makes her respond differently to different people - she adores Robert and thinks he is God and if he says something she will do it even if she thinks he is wrong, whereas if I asked her to do the same thing and she thought I was wrong she would do what she thought was right. A lot of the time she is right which is a worry. I am sure I am too soft with her but in the long run she is a much loved pet (or as my next door neighbour puts it - my canine companion) rather than a full on working dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Here are those pics I was looking for. These were in May when he was 12 weeks old. He is now a ratbag but still cute as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Are any victorians heading to Welshpool on the weekend?? We'll be there! I'm doing an agility demo Sat morning and will probably enter city slickers and the puppy events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylieandpossum Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 Here are those pics I was looking for.These were in May when he was 12 weeks old. He is now a ratbag but still cute as hell awwwwww hello chance! yes i can see the purebred kelpie there i think that you have hit the nail on the head re koolies, ratbags but cute as hell. this does NOT help ridding them of the ratbag. sometimes when miss p is being a ratbag even in the yard i laugh at her cos she so cute. even mr-im-a-big-hard-working-dog-man-instructor thinks shes cute. so, therefore, its not my fault shes a ratbag really, im going now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Don't forget to vote on Saturday as well. I am not sire whether to vote first and then go down or visa versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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