Vinegar In A Squirt Bottle

[olly]

My friend and I are 5 weeks into obedience classes.

Our instructor has asked my friend to bring along a pump bottle filled with vinegar to squirt her dog (SBT) when he gets excited and lunges towards other dogs. He's not dog aggressive, it's just play. He's very strong.

Can I have opinions on this please? Seems a little extreme to me, will it have any negative effect on his interaction with other dogs in future?

Thanks

[mackindy]

Ok.......... So i go up to a stranger to introduce myself and say hello as i am new to the area........get squirted with vinegar for my trouble...... i know how i'd like to respond !!!!!!!!

Just my opinion !!!!!!

(go with what feels right - instructors aren't always the be all and end all!)

Good Luck

Edited November 16, 2006 by mackindy

[Staranais]

I haven't seen this method before, and I'd be concerned that the vinegar might sting the dog's eyes?

What I have seen is people using water in a squirt bottle to punish bad behaviour, which works by giving the dog a bit of a fright.

I personally would be a little concerned that this strategy would negatively affect the SBTs behaviour towards other dogs, especially if your friend's timing isn't great. The SBT could easily get the impression that the other dogs were causing the squirt just by being present, which could make him wary or aggressive towards other dogs. A dog aggressive SBT is not fun to handle (believe me, I know!) So no, I wouldn't let someone do this to my dog, even just with water, unless I was very sure they knew what they were doing.

Have they tried taking the SBT a little further away from the other dog, so he's not so hyped up and excited, then praising and rewarding him for good behaviour?

Edited November 16, 2006 by Amhailte

[swain]

At our obedience class the trainers supply 1 water bottle that just has water in it (to squirt trouble makers) the other water bottle has vinegar in it and water - but that's just to keep the equipment clean when a dog pee's on it.

[haven]

Personally I specifically instruct the people in my puppy classes not to use any forms of positive punishment while they are interacting with other dogs because their dog may associate the punisher with the presence of the other dogs.

It's totally normal for pups to get excited and want to play together but IMO the best method is simply to keep interaction short with plenty of rest breaks and allow pups to learn that certain behaviours end playtime, like jumping, pulling etc.

[wagalot]

i have seen and use this method and it does work

i also have 2 squirt bottles at home to use on dogs staying for dog minding, 1 has just water the other a mix of water and vinegar.

I use this method only when the dogs don't respond to my voice command and use it on dogs that get too excited and bully like or for barking for no reason etc.

personally i would not use straight vinegar, mix it with water and only use it as a second correction when your dog has not responded to your voice correction.....when the dog does stop the bad behaviour you must always praise straight away this is how they learn.....after a while of shock squirting your dog they will soon learn if you bring the bottle out and aim it at them that they are doing wrong and will settle quickly caz they don't want get squirted and u won't need to use it, just show it to them

trust me works well......but don't rely on it all the time

you have to gain control using voice and remember must always praise as soon as your dog stops the bad behaviour.

[Nevafollo]

hmmmm we got told when sam barks that we should throw a cup full of water at him!!!!it works a treat except he seems to know when your coming now cause you have to throw the water further each time...but its definately got his barking down to a minimum...dont know if i would do it at dog training thou...you want ya dog happy to be there....so he performs to his or her best....

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I have no problems with using a squirt bottle and water...works very well in some situations but IMO not a good method to use if you are working on dog-dog introductions or greetings. It would seem to me that the dog being squirted would think the dog/s it is meeting are not pleasant things to associate with and may make the dog more likely to respond in a negative way to other dogs.

If you're not comfortable with the training methods, it might be a good idea to look around for another class or instructor.

[Tassie]

Personally I wouldn't use an aversive like this on a pup which is just being over-friendly - for the reasons given above - he may associate the presence of other dogs with unpleasant things - not something you want in any dog.

IMHO, it's important for your friend to teach and reinforce behaviour which is incompatible with lunging towards other dogs. She will need super treats, and good timing, and she may initially need to use her body to turn away and re-focus the dog on her. What she is after is for her dog to see the presence of other dogs as a cue to check back with her - to look at her and turn back to her for further instructions. When appropriate, those instructions may then be that he is allowed to go say hi - nicely. Or they may be that he should sit, or walk with her - or whatever.

If she can achieve this, it will be so much more useful to her in general life - when walking the dog on the streets etc. So the sequence would go "See other dog, look at mum - and then do what mum says." And all without a squirt bottle.

This is one of those situations where a clicker-savvy dog can learn more quickly - you can click even the slightest head turn back towards you, and then treat - then you get a bigger turn etc.etc.

At the recent APDT conference, Pat Miller was talking about switching on a "Where's my chicken?" response - she was talking about it in relation to reactive dogs, but it applies equally well to over friendly dogs.

One of the problems about using a squirt bottle is what are you going to do then? How is the dog to learn what he should be doing in those situations?

[Cuddles]

i have seen and use this method and it does work

i also have 2 squirt bottles at home to use on dogs staying for dog minding, 1 has just water the other a mix of water and vinegar.

I use this method only when the dogs don't respond to my voice command and use it on dogs that get too excited and bully like or for barking for no reason etc.

personally i would not use straight vinegar, mix it with water and only use it as a second correction when your dog has not responded to your voice correction.....when the dog does stop the bad behaviour you must always praise straight away this is how they learn.....after a while of shock squirting your dog they will soon learn if you bring the bottle out and aim it at them that they are doing wrong and will settle quickly caz they don't want get squirted and u won't need to use it, just show it to them

trust me works well......but don't rely on it all the time

you have to gain control using voice and remember must always praise as soon as your dog stops the bad behaviour.

Yes it does work. It gives you time to distract your dog from the activity and to gain control.

I used this method (water in a spray bottle) when Scrappy was a puppy and now all I have to say is "where is the squirt" and Scrappy immediately stops what he is doing and looks at his rump.

I have never,ever squirted him in the face. Only on the rear. One fine spray on the rear is enough to distract your dog and for you to get control of the situation. If I sprayed Scrappy in the face he would think it was a game I was playing as he loooves water.

[olly]

Thanks everyone for your input.

He's not a pup, he's 3 and my friend has had him about 3 months.

[sandyl]

We use the vinegar squirt bottle here too. Half water, half vinegar. We don't spray directly in their faces though. They bark at cats all through the night, this seems to shut them up a bit. They usually shut up after a few yells, but then start up again as soon as we hit our beds.

[RealityBites]

Just curious...but if you are only spraying the dog on the rear and not the face.......what's the point of the vinegar?..............

[sandyl]

Not spraying directly in face/eyes (ouch!), but around neck/body. This way the smell surrounds them, but isn't in their faces.

[haven]

i have seen and use this method and it does work

It certainly does work well for some dogs, but I still wouldn't use it to punish a dog (regardless of age) in a group situation because the presence of other dogs could easily become a reliable predictor that the dog is going to receive a punisher, hence the dog makes an association that results in conflict, avoidance and potentially aggressive behaviour around other dogs.

[Erny]

Just curious...but if you are only spraying the dog on the rear and not the face.......what's the point of the vinegar?..............

A clean butt.

[noisymina]

@ Erny.

Waste of good vinegar.

Water will do the trick - specially if it is cold.

[Rusky]

when a dog is excited it is generally playing, without seeing the situation it is difficult to give decent advice but I would never suggest a spray nor would any trainers I know, in fact it would be viewed by all I know as silly, unacceptable and shows the trainers to be inadequate.

The spray can easily and quickly have the result which Haven has described

They are suggesting a dog be punished for communicating with its own kind, If I were your friend with the spray advice I would quickly seek out another trainer or club.

[RealityBites]

Just curious...but if you are only spraying the dog on the rear and not the face.......what's the point of the vinegar?.............. ;)

A clean butt.

Hmmm vinegar makes me think of fish and chips.....YUM!! LOL

But I wouldn't spray it on my dogs butt, or anywhere else for that matter!

[huski]

I agree with other posters about not using the spray when the dog is interacting with other dogs, that is if he is just being boisterious (he can't help he's bigger )... I have seen a pup reprimanded in a negative fashion when playing with other dogs and he turned really aggressive (mind you, the person reprimanded the dog by kicking it : so it isn't quite the same but still...)