Teaching The Drop Command On The Run

[KismetKat]

By background I had a long trial teaching my dog the drop command - she knew what it meant but was often reluctant to comply.

After some concentrated work she is now pretty good, but much more to the hand command than vpice alone - she is a visual kind of dog.

I can get her to drop from a distance when in a sit/stay, but what I really want is her to drop when on the run.

One trainer suggested I throw in a drop when she is recalling - but this seems to be a bit confusing as she will still 'come' all the way to me and then drop.

All tricks and tips gratefully requested.

[sas]

Doing Drive work was the only way I could get Leila to do it, although she gets confused sometimes so I need to improve myself.

I'm not sure if this is the right way to correct it, but when she moves I say AH UH and move towards her and try again.

We do it in baby steps in regards to distance.

Can your pooch drop from a distance? Just not on recall?

Edited November 7, 2006 by sas

[KismetKat]

sas - she can drop from a distance when in a sit/stay/ When in a sit/stay she is very focused on me. Like I said, she responds far more to the hand signal than voice alone. When in a sit/stay the actual distance I am from her does not seem that much of an issue - however, when not using both voice and hand command, she willl always respond better to an alone hand command than an alone voice command

However to try and 'drop' her )voice, hand or both) midway thru a recall seems to be confusing. Like I said, she still comes all the way too me and then does the drop. I don't want to play around with this too much as VCA trainingis to recall to a sit.

So is there another way?

One thing I have tried is to run with her (on leash) and do a drop then - but how to work on distance? And should I work on voice alone more?

[TangerineDream]

I've always taught my dogs to drop at fast pace, and to do it fast - as I say 'drop' I also drop my left knee to the ground and go right down with the dog - doing this fast and repeating it a few times makes it a game and gets the speed up. Once the command 'drop' can be executed at fast pace with the dog next to you, try doing it with the dog facing you and as you give the hand signal (I use the sweeping over the head and down with my right hand), step forward with your left foot and bend down at the knee again....when that has been learnt thoroughly and internalised both next to you and facing you......try it on a recall and step forward and go donw on the knee till you have proofed it...as your dog becomes steadier and more reliable you can lose the overexaggeration.....

This one can be a fun game ;) and I've found that its one of the exercises that the dogs really enjoy because it's fast and furious....

[dogdude]

Hi Kismetkat

Im not too sure exactly what you are aiming to achieve? Is it the drop on recall? or simply to drop on the move during heelwork, or other? Are you aiming to trial?

[sidoney]

I taught my dogs to drop wherever they were, stationary and moving, in the middle of a game or whatever. Then dropping on a recall was (comparatively) easy.

Edited November 7, 2006 by sidoney

[Rom]

One method that I've read about but haven't tried yet (so can't really attest to its effectiveness) is to get one lenght of the broad jump and stand it on end, or something else you can use as a low barrier. Call your dog to you from a sit stay (with you standing on the other side of the broad jump) and give her the drop signal as she comes in. Over progressive repetitions, you move back away from the barrier one step at a time, but always give her the drop command as she approaches the barrier. To make sure that she understands what you want, return to her at the barrier to praise her for getting it right a few times. As time goes on you remove the barrier.

I think a lot of the problem with the drop on recall is because it is one of the few exercises where one command cancels out another. In every thing else the dog is expected to complete each command. So its not an easy one for the dog to grasp.

Some training issues that I can see with this that may arise:

Some dogs that are over trained in the drop on recall slow down on normal recalls in anticipation of the drop command. So make sure that the drop on recall training is mixed in with heaps of straight recalls.

The dog might lose the plot once the barrier is removed, so perhaps it might be best to gradually decrease the size of the barrier?

My Girl is nowhere near us needing drop on recall for the ring yet, but when I have a bone to give her, I wait until she is involved in something else...I don't leave her on a sit stay all the time, then I call out for the drop, no matter what it is she is doing. Then I take either take the bone to her or toss it in her direction. I don't just want a good drop on recall, I want her to want to drop no matter what else she might be doing. Be it chasing butterflies or heading to the dam for a swim or going to investigate a strange noise or just wandering in the garden. I sometimes add a recall for her to come and get the bone from me.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Do you want drop during recall or drop on the move whilst in heel, same as dogdude I'm confused.

Drop on the move is a sinch to teach, if that's the one you want I will type out the steps tomorrow.

Mel.

[KismetKat]

Yes it's a 'drop on the move" I'm after. Like one poster said, no matter what she is doing, chasing butterflies etc. if I call drop she does.

It got confused in with the recall as this was one suggestion a dog trainer gave me - but like I said this seemed to be confusing the dog so I stopped doing it - and thus the request for tips.

Making it a fast game sounds good.

My other concern is that she is much more attuned to hand signals than voice - so getting her to 'drop on the move' even if she's running the other way and not looking at me.

[dogdude]

I think that I can see what you want from your dog now. I think that you would get more value in your training by concentrating on proofing your recall with distractions, whilst also proofing your stationary drops working at a distance. To start teaching the drop on recall requires you to first have a positively reliable dog doing the standard recall. Both are easy to teach but must be thoroughly proofed.

As a self confesed Diane Bauman fan, I use Roms method (but use multiple low boards) for the drop on recall. Most dogs will slow down when you begin to teach them because they are worried about missing the hand signal. This is quickly gotten over by giving clear, steady hand signals. You need to build a 100% confident dog whith this exersize for it to be done well.

[Tilly]

I have been teaching my dog the drop in motion. I started by jogging around with him and then dropping him. I had to make the hand movement big and over the top and then praised lots and lots.

I continued by giving a drop command when he was just coming back to me (without a recall command).

He don't "love" dropping and makes it look like an effort but he will now drop when he is told .... just have to work out how to get him to stay in the drop position until he is told otherwise

[sidoney]

Remember when training to get the reward to the dog where it drops ... position of reward is important. With my dogs, we gradually got further and further away until they would drop anywhere. For teaching the drop on recall, usually I'd get the reward to the dog, and sometimes call them to me for a reward.

Does your dog look at you on its name or some other cue? If you are worried about it missing the signal, you need a cue to get it to check in with you, that is not also a cue to come to you.

[Seita]

Hi!! I always teach drop on the move rather than from sit or stand as you end up getting a faster and better drop. I tend to move at walking pace becuase Im a bit unco at times and then I usually use a treat or a toy and simply bring it down in front of the dogs nose to the ground between its legs, usually its head will follow the lure. If it doesnt then move the lure towards the dogs chest on the ground still this will make the dog drop its shoulders and then gently with your other hand press lightly on the dogs shoulders and push the dogs chest to the ground, the bum will usually follow if not push it down as well... say drop as the dogs chest hits the ground. I find this way gets a neater drop rather than the old sit and pull the dogs legs out from under it method... the dog sort of colapses nicely into a drop. Once the dog gets it you can skip the push and just put the lure to the ground and as soon as the dogs chest hits the ground give it the lure. It will click pretty quickly! I just started my pup this way yesterday and Ive already got the drop without the hand over the back today. I expect that I will have a drop on voice command by the end of the week! Goodluck!

[KismetKat]

Just to clear up some queries - her recall is pretty good and I've been working on recalls with distraction. e.g. running off to meet another dog and calling her back. She is good at that. Though I imagine not so at a high-tailing cat! That being said, some recent help with Herding Guy and she proved pretty good at the 'stop' command when working sheep. In a sit/stay I can drop her from quite some distance, but like I said she seems a lot more responsive to the hand signal that voice alone. She also drops well at heel (using hand and voice).

So is part of the secret to proof more on voice alone?

Edited November 8, 2006 by KismetKat

[whatevah]

Does she know drop from a stand? Like with you in front. I start with my dog close, I say drop, as soon as he drops i throw the toy as the reward, the drops get quicker because he knows as soon as he drops he gets what he wants which is to retrieve the toy.

[KismetKat]

She knows the drop from stand, sit and moving at heel.

She was a bugger to teach it tho (as I said earlier). In her early days she would drop like an anchor if food was involved, but otherwise it was all raised eyebrows, a 'must I?" expression on her face, and a drop with slowness that would rival a glacier.

So she's improved heaps since those days

[sidoney]

Sounds a bit like you had an issue with getting her onto a variable reinforcement ratio. Problem being, the food had to be present for the behaviour to occur.

Edited November 8, 2006 by sidoney

[KismetKat]

Ooh, big technical words but I get your drift. Yes it was an issue and took a lot of nilifing with the drop, and other strategies, to get her to what reliability I have now. For instance, of course she doesn't get a treat for dropping when 15 metres away, but then she gets a recall and a treat.

[whatevah]

Maybe that is your problem, if I want the dog to work at a distance, the reward has to be given at a distance. Moses drops at a distance, so I throw the reward behind him. When he knows it well then I will mix up where I throw the reward. Or you could go out and reward her there, but I wouldn't recall her. Even in agility for teaching the table, you always reward on the table.

[sidoney]

Definitely definitely. Either throw the reward to the dog or go to the dog and reward it in place. Otherwise you are not reinforcing the drop at the distance, so the dog can't see why it should drop and then come to you for a reward, the drop is not being rewarded, just the come to you. So why drop?

I used to reward mostly with food and would run out to the dog and reward it right there, praise it up, and so on.

"Placement of reward" is very, very important. Timing and placement. Your timing sounds like you are actually rewarding the come. And the placement is with you. Give the dog verbal reinforcement as soon as it drops - a reward marker but not an "end of behaviour" reward marker - and reward it in the place you want it to be, i.e. in the drop away from you. Dunno if CTD does this, but if I was throwing the reward behind the dog, I'd be doing it with a release word or "end of behaviour" marker. And build up duration by delaying the release/marker.

Edited November 8, 2006 by sidoney