whatevah Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 My dog only does agility for the reward at the end, he is not that fussed over it. But take him to lure coursing, and he won't even eat a chicken chunker in front of his face while waiting for his turn. He runs flat chat the whole way, and will try and get inside the blue tunnel at the end to get that plastic bag. My other dog loves retrieving and the retrieve is the reward. That toy you mentioned, I made something similar, I bought a nylon horse whip and tied a plastic bag on the end and also have tied a latex toy on the end. Used it last time Moses did some filming for an add where he had to do lots of leaps in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Goodness, I am going to sound so boring by my short input by this thread. Probably as I train and compete for retrieving trials (which are so much more difficult than natural hunting, especially in the higher stakes) my reply may not make any sense........but here I go............... Its how a dog perceives, obtains, and achieves SATISFACTION. Some, in my case, who value birds VERY highly, as they should, bearing in mind their greatest gifts, genetic birdiness and prey drive, and may I add water attitude, can sometimes need/or require (for want of a better word) further satisfaction from a conditioned reward. The high prey drive dogs, can value birds too "much" and can LOL certainly count (retrieves required in a trial or obtained when training). Always keep them guessing (in training)...........so they never know when their satisfaction can be obtained. From a, say obedience trial setting, I would hope to achieve focus long after existing the ring. Condition the dog so it learns.......with patience, and good fous, a reward will eventuate. Change their expectations, just as we do in earlier puppy and young dog training. You (dog) do this for me, and I (human) will do "this" for you. This being satisfaction. Too many variety type rewards, which may have different values, is a poor way of rewarding good responses, prolonging satisfaction or obtaining conditioned results. Just like humans, canines do not do, something for nothing. They are in reality selfish........like some humans. LOL. Drives is a great topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I beg to differ on this quote Steve..... just ask Andrew That is what I thought K9: rofl.. I suppose there are perfect cars too, other than the GT? Apparently not. Jade and I are learning these things, as well as the SAR stuff. cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 K9: MJ I advise you to speak to Andrew when you name your next dog...... I feel he would suggest the name "Bob".. Thats the shortened version anyway, best ask Andrew for the rest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardog Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 :p Actually, speaking of "Bob"....Tim (tim999) is currently in the Netherlands at the 5-day symposium and he's staying with "Bob's handler. I hope all goes well for him...... we'll soon know! Sorry to hijack this thread - K9, you have such a good memory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) SD: Actually, speaking of "Bob"....Tim (tim999) is currently in the Netherlands at the 5-day symposium and he's staying with "Bob's handler. K9: Well I sure hope Tim enjoys himself.... Maybe Bob will take care of him & make that surname ring true...? (that one is for Andrew...) SD: Sorry to hijack this thread - K9, you have such a good memory! K9: I dont forget anything ever.... ************************ K9: Just to add an "on topic" comment here, those that feel that a NRM will see the dog lose attitude or drive, should take a look at their vocal tonation & body language when giving the NRM.. Edited November 3, 2006 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyWild Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 :p Actually, speaking of "Bob"....Tim (tim999) is currently in the Netherlands at the 5-day symposium and he's staying with "Bob's handler. I hope all goes well for him...... we'll soon know! Sorry to hijack this thread - K9, you have such a good memory! Bob - is a needy dog, who knows what was happening when i was off at the symposium during the day between him and his handler. :p Sardog - they didn't mention andrew once, but did in conversation some how bring up bob as being the name for a dog - i only just managed to contain my laughter. They are now moving to france - will update you when i get back in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardog Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 NW.....great to hear from you. Your head will be spinning with all the international info you have collected. I heard recently they were moving to France, AJ has had that in her mind since I was there in 2001.....! Are you heading to Scotland now? Be great to hear from you when you return, looking forward to seeing the gear you have for me :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Be great to hear from you when you return, Sure will. Now lets see, what is the time currently in Amsterdam (you stay away from any of those "naughty" shop fronts Tim!!) OK, its 6.21am. Tim, Off topic. Sill coming to the seminar 25th/26th/27th November, to see some other fun training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) Often the act itself doesn't start as self rewarding, but becomes rewarding for the dog because they come to understand that it is an opportunity to get a reward, obedience training is a great example of this. I only got as far as this post, I found that in obedience my old GSD boy learnt to do the exercise & it was pretty obvious that the exercise itself fairly quickly became the motivator. With him you could give him as much food or playing as you wanted, but for him the biggest reward was the actual exercise itself. However he didnt start off like that of course, but it became that way as I trained him more. Give him a ring & some offlead heelwork & a recall, or a dumbell & a couple of jumps or a seekback article or scent articles & he loved it. My bitch was similar, she did it cos she loved to work, even if it was just heeling. Im still in the stage with Jonty where I havent worked out what motivates him best, but Im hoping that he may turn out the same way. Great topic Vickie, like you I find it interesting to see other people's opinions on it. ETA ........ I think it works the other way around, at least it has with my dogs. Most of them initially weren't that enthralled by jumps, weave poles, etc, but enjoyed the play and rewards associated with training. After a few months, and starting to sequence, the dogs start to get excited at their turn, and more focussed on the agility than the reward. I dont do agility mjk, but that is exactly what I meant with my dogs & obedience - the more they trained, the more excited they were by learning & doing stuff. (that will teach me for not reading the whole thread before I reply :D ) Edited November 3, 2006 by MrsD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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