Steve K9Pro Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 M: so what is the reason for the TOT to mention that the dog should eat after, if its of no significance? K9: It is of significance, no one said it isnt. I did say, that it was in my opinion that, "dominance will not be elevated by the dog eating first"... I dont think I can make it any clearer than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Dominance being elevated by who eats first, who walks through doorways first is an old wives tail... (no offence to wives lol) I think what myszka is trying to say is that this sentence implied that the order in which dogs & humans eat makes no difference at all. That's how I read it and I'm sure others did too. So just to clarify, what you ARE saying is that if humans eat first it can help with dominance problems? Whereas if the dog eats first it won't be getting any worse or better? Not sure how that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 K9: He is taking so much work to keep him in a pack position there is someting else wrong... Okay, fair call and probably accurate. How do I work out what is wrong and how to fix it? M-J and I have talked about Bart's issues with food around other dogs and she had recommended that the simpler solution was management given the large number of dogs we have through the house due to the rescue work. I had understood that the things we were doing were important things from TOT but will admit to difficulties in fulling "understanding" aspects of it - have read it over and over and over again so I'm sure that I'm just having difficulty actually picturing it. We will be going to training with M-J again very shortly so will try to get her to explain it to me in the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 (edited) Thanks jaybeece. I thought Im the only one thats dumb. My line of thought was: dominance will not be elevated by the dog eating first"... than M: so will the dog eating last decrease the dominance?K9: No. That, as I said, in my opinion, is an old wives tail... than if it doesnt decrease nor increase why worry about the order of eating? But now I think - the order isnt important for the dominance issue but its important for other reasons. Would be good to get the "other" reasons listed.... Also It prevents rank issues both with human & dog pack members. It can be modified slightly to cure existing rank issues... Is the order of eating part of the prevention? if so how if it doesnt increase or decrease? Edited November 2, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 J: I think what myszka is trying to say is that this sentence implied that the order in which dogs & humans eat makes no difference at all. That's how I read it and I'm sure others did too. K9: no, what she is trying to point out is... I said that dogs eating before the pack leader & ending up dominant because of this is an old wives tale. She then suggested that, if this is my opinion, why in my TOT program do I say what she thought was the opposite? I pointed out that I didnt say the opposite at all... J: So just to clarify, what you ARE saying is that if humans eat first it can help with dominance problems? Whereas if the dog eats first it won't be getting any worse or better? K9: No, what I am saying is that, if you have a dog that is dominant, when it is fed will have no bearing on that, it wont improve nor make the situation worse. T: How do I work out what is wrong and how to fix it? K9: You have the dog assessed by a behaviourist, they design you a program that will re structure the pack & extinguish the dogs excessive rank drive.. ********************************************************** M: than if it doesnt decrease nor increase why worry about the order of eating? K9: The are several other reasons, the program can be directed in many ways to help with rank issues, to help with nerve issues, to help with obedience, respect & many other things... I have added the basic program on DOL & my website FREE. The advanced steps are explained during consultation. M: Would be good to get the "other" reasons listed.... K9: Im sure it would.... As I spend a great deal of time developing these programs, & giving away plenty of free advice, I am sure you can stretch your thinking to understand why everything cant be free... Dont you think if it was, the people who do pay would feel cheated when what they paid for was free anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) giving away plenty of free advice and we all thank you for that She then suggested that, if this is my opinion, why in my TOT program do I say what she thought was the opposite?I pointed out that I didnt say the opposite at all... No actually not. I asked if it doesnt decrease nor increase why worry about the order of eating? Edited November 3, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arby Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 now children settle down...i think everyone is getting confused lol... but definately i have no idea what we'd do without you K9!!! the NILIF ideas work great. When Humphrey is being naughty and trying to get in the house we just ignore him until he stops scratching at the door. Then we make him sit and stay for a at least half a minute. If he doesnt stay we make him sit and wait longer. Keep doing this until we're happy that he's settled and is listening to us. Then we taugh him an "enter" command and he's learnt not to come in until he hears that. Well he's learning. He definately is submissive to myself and the boyfriend. He's occasionally dominant over my boyfriends parents and one of our friends. Everyone else in my boyfriends family he basically walks over. We keep telling them what to do but they just wont listen to common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 (edited) Edited November 5, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I've been reading Cesar's book and decided to try and put some of it into practice and see if it made a difference...so I've been practicing being 'calm-assertive' (has been difficult, but I've had some very interesting results in a very short time!!!) I'm also walking Tango (all enthusiastic 31kg) of pure muscle on a leather collar and 6' lead and have found that he's not pulling like he does on a check chain - I've found that walking past the 3 labradors who have to live behind electric fences, (because they'd shred you otherwise) this afternoon was a completely different experience to normal. Tango's very dominant and has a habit of setting 'iffy' dogs off just by eyeballing them......today I made him walk past them and stay focussed on me...and that left 3 rather confused labradors with nothing to shout at..... and if I ask him to 'look', he will now focus on me for longer.....in 4 days, these little things have made a huge difference!!!!! All I have to do it to remain 'calm-assertive' (that'll be the test.... ), but I've got a much better behaved dog!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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