Which Food Is Better?

[Steve]

Many many things we could talk about here.

Firstly when we talk about the digestibility of protein we assume among other things that rice is rice .So we know rice is more digestible than wheat so rice must be better - right? But rice can also be that stuff thats left after all the human stuff is taken out - the hulls . You know the stuff they use in cat litter? Is that really as digestible as rice they used to test protein digestibility with? Is all parts of the rice plant as digestible as all the others bits including the bits humans dont eat? How do we know if a dog food which says rice is using one or the other or both unless they qualify it and even if they do how do we know how much . Is it heaps and therefore a problem or is it just a handful and good fibre? Will it make any difference to the health of our dogs over time or are we trying to work it all out for nothing? For each cup full of dog food how much meat is there really there if the first ingredient is meat but we dont know how much of anything else there is. Is the second ingredient minutely smaller than the first or hugely different. :p

[J...]

I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly..... to use rice as an example, pet food companies are actually allowed to use the word rice in their ingredients list, yet it maybe a component of rice i.e rice bran, rice hulls or indeed it may be whole rice? :p

[Steve]

Feralpup Yep thats right Bigger trouble is they can list it to suit themselves. Some will just simply say rice,you assume its rice as we know rice but not necessarily so - while others will split it and say rice bran, rice flour ,ground rice ,rice hulls .

With the A food - if in fact the lamb is the higher ingredient which is implied because its first on the ingredient list then why have they split the rice up into 3 different bits .Obviously if they just listed it as rice then it would need to be first on the list in front of the meat. So you could have 2 foods which are the same ratio of meat to grain but one has been smarter in the way they have written the label. In fact a food which lists rice then meat instead of meat and 3 different bits of the rice plant may have more meat that the one that has split the plant up into bits. Its not possible for you to know this however, because the amount per kilo of ingredients of food is never noted.When they say vitamins and minerals have been added do they mean a cup ful or a pinch per tonne? Why do they list the protein anaysis but never the percentage of meat protein per plant protein and does it really matter anyway as some amino acids and vitamins etc are killed by the heat used in processing .

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

It was said that Food B contained cereals and bran, but we have yet to be given an answer as to what type of cereals have been used. :p

[Steve]

Hesapanda Bear. There is no itemisation on the packet of what the cereals are which was part of the point .The first 4 ingredients were listed as they appear on the packs for the specific purpose of trying to see whether it was possible for people to be able to decipher what was a better food by only reading these first 4 when they go to buy their dog food . This was purely because I turned up some marketing research which showed that the majority of dog food buyers only read the first 4 ingredients when they were shopping.

Clearly some people want more information and choose their dog food on the rest of the ingredient list or other criteria but that wasnt the question .Because of the research I wanted to know whether people here would be able to choose between a good quality food and any other by only looking at the first 4 ingredients and why I asked which food was better by only listing these first 4 .

The ingredients are listed in some foods by a long list of each thing specifically thats in them where others group their ingredients . So in B they are listed as cereals and in A they are listed as what they are specifically,

Because the measurements and the ratios of one ingredient to the other are never listed its not possible to know whether there is actually more of anything in one than the other and its likely that if food B were to split their description as food A did that they would have meat listed as their first ingredient or maybe even their first 4 ingredients. The average consumer isnt able to tell which food is better even if they study all of the ingredients and because of this they have little choice but to take the company's word for it or buy the most expensive in the belief they are getting a higher quality.

There's many more things we could say about dog foods but none of these were relavant to answering the question.

[~Anne~]

steve - :p

Thank you for providing this insight into commerical pet food! I admire the way you enjoy finding a subject and exploring it and the end result is education. You are a born teacher.

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

The question was would you buy based on the first four ingredients, of which product B listed cereals and bran as its first ingredients, as a consumer I would want to know what those cererals were before making a decision.

Cereals may include maize, wheat, rice, barley, sorghum, millets, rye and buckwheat.

If I cannot establish which of cereals are included, and given that product B lists cereals and bran as its first ingredient, then I would purchase product A, and pay top $$$$$ providing the criteria in my first post can be answered:

and conform to AAFCO profiles." Are they both in fact AAFCO tested or are they just formulated to meet AAFCO requirements. There is a vast difference between "tested" and "formulated". If either of the two comes with AAFCO testing then this would be a factor in choice.

We choose what we feed our dogs based on performance, which as you may know is the balance between taste vs palability vs usable nutrition vs excellent ingredients vs digestibility. Do either of these products meet this performance level?.

We also feed based on the fact that the product we use comes with a specific skin and coat improvement guarantee.

Do either of these two products carry that guarantee?.

[Steve]

The question was would you buy based on the first four ingredients, of which product B listed cereals and bran as its first ingredients, as a consumer I would want to know what those cererals were before making a decision.

Cereals may include maize, wheat, rice, barley, sorghum, millets, rye and buckwheat.

If I cannot establish which of cereals are included, and given that product B lists cereals and bran as its first ingredient, then I would purchase product A, and pay top $$$$$ providing the criteria in my first post can be answered:

and conform to AAFCO profiles." Are they both in fact AAFCO tested or are they just formulated to meet AAFCO requirements. There is a vast difference between "tested" and "formulated". If either of the two comes with AAFCO testing then this would be a factor in choice.

We choose what we feed our dogs based on performance, which as you may know is the balance between taste vs palability vs usable nutrition vs excellent ingredients vs digestibility. Do either of these products meet this performance level?.

We also feed based on the fact that the product we use comes with a specific skin and coat improvement guarantee.

Do either of these two products carry that guarantee?.

O.K. so you wouldnt buy based on the first 4 ingredients , you would look for other things to give you a clue as to which was worth more money or better quality. Thats great . If you would like to talk about the difference between AAFCO testing and formulated thats a good topic but not relavant to choosing between the first 4 ingredients. Whether or not either or both meet

the balance between "taste vs palability vs usable nutrition vs excellent ingredients vs digestibility" is something people are able to judge after they buy the product but its not possible to tell these things based on the first 4 ingredients . Neither A or B guarantees specific coat and skin guarantee but both use almost identical words in stating they promote healthy skin and radiant coat but this isnt relavant in choosing from the first 4 ingredients as none of the first 4 ingredients are noted for their coat or skin enhancing qualities.

You buy your dog food based on what you know and your own criteria but the purpose of the exercise was to demonstrate that buying a dog food only based on the first 4 ingredients is probably not a good idea and considering the research says most people do I thought it was interesting and worth questioning.

The question was - based on the first 4 ingredients would you feel that that paying 4 times as much for one over the other was justified and if so which one ?

The answer is that based on this information alone no one can decide which one is worth 4 times the price because you need more information - Therefore if you are choosing your dog food the way the majority of the people who were surveyed do you have about a 50 percent chance of getting a product which is pretty ordinary and or paying way too much for it.

I think considering you sell dog food and have put a hell of a lot into learning about the product and why its better its safe to say you are not the average consumer and so there fore look for different things and more info to be able to compare but based on the average education on commercial dog foods in the market place many people are making their choices differently and this was the point to my question.