Seita Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hi, does anyone here train their dog in drive for the show ring? I've just started training my pup in drive but wasn't sure if I should worry about using it for the show ring, so I was wondering if anyone has any ideas, thoughts or experiences to share with me! Thanks in advance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I personally wouldnt, if the dog isnt happy enough looking in the ring to start with i probably wouldnt be showing. You can easily get a dog to stand looking alert without needing to use drives. Besides when you are gaiting you dont want the dog looking at you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 You can easily get a dog to stand looking alert without needing to use drives. That's not always true. Daegon love the whole show day and he loves gaiting...but when it comes to stacking he stiffens up, straightens his back legs and roaches his back something shocking, he HATES stacking. I want to train him in drive for a toy to stack, I dunno how to do it but nothing else works...no food, no nothing, unless my other dog is standing right next to him (because Daegon thinks Kovu will get the treat if he doesn't stack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 True, some dogs wont but i wouldnt want to use a toy in the ring it is very distracting to the other dogs which is a very inconsiderate thing to do. Though you could cue it, train them in drive at home and use a word so they "know" the word then say that word only in the ring and at training. Much the same as saying "walk" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangerineDream Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 True, some dogs wont but i wouldnt want to use a toy in the ring it is very distracting to the other dogs which is a very inconsiderate thing to do.Though you could cue it, train them in drive at home and use a word so they "know" the word then say that word only in the ring and at training. Much the same as saying "walk" Had this experience last weekend - a squeaky being furiously used in the ring behind him sent Tango out of his tree....until I asked her to not squeak it because it was so distracting.....I could have stacked him in reverse, but don't see why I have to...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I wouldn't be thinking a squeaky toy because I think that is rude, but Daegon seems to think sheep and towels out to be grabbed, so maybe sheep wool or a facewasher rolled up or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 You could just pretend you take it with you to clean their faces lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Hi thanks for the responses so far. Its nothing to do with the fact that she does/doesn't enjoy going into the ring, in fact she loves it a little too much and gets far to excited and distracted by the ppl, dogs and noises everywhere. I know this is a training thing and with a bit more training and practice she'll get over the excitement. I know that with training in drive she will be very focussed on me which is a good thing in regards to her getting distracted or not, but it also means she'll probably be looking at me rather than straight ahead which is not such a great thing in the show ring. I'm keen to hear what other ppl who train in drive do for showing!!! ps - I don't use a squeaky or anything noisy and with training drive so other dogs wouldn't even need to know that I have a toy, the important thing is that my dog knows I have it and that if she does what I ask she'll get it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I know that with training in drive she will be very focussed on me which is a good thing in regards to her getting distracted or not, but it also means she'll probably be looking at me rather than straight ahead which is not such a great thing in the show ring. Hey Seita, how about adjusting where you stand in relation to your dog? Maybe if you stand out infront at a leads length facing her the focus will just help to refine her stack? Have also had standing out infront suggested to me with the reason being that the dog leans forward into itself and comes up on its toes giving it a more 'ready for action' kind of look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Rom: thanks for your reply I will remember that but at the moment I need to hold on to her as she bounces all over the place when the judge comes near her! My statement was actually related to gaiting the dog but it also goes for the stack. You're training your dog in drive aren't you? Are you planning to use drive for the show ring as well? Is there anyone out there that does train their dog in drive and does show their dog as well? I'm really keen to hear ideas and experiences!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Is there anyone out there that does train their dog in drive and does show their dog as well? I'm really keen to hear ideas and experiences!!! I do thats why i replied earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 You're training your dog in drive aren't you? Are you planning to use drive for the show ring as well? Yes, but the last time we were in the show ring was prior to Steve's workshop and before I actually really understood the whole TID concept. However, after reading and absorbing what I could from here, I razzed my girl up and teased her with a toy B4 we went into the ring...did she break gait? Yup Did she want to play with the lead during the gait Yup But not only did I get the most impressive stack that I've ever had out of her, she also got the best placing that she's ever had in the largest field of bitches that I've ever had her up against. So I know what I did needs some refining, but I'm not sure how to go about that just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 19, 2006 Author Share Posted October 19, 2006 Tollersowned: sorry I didn't realise that you trained in drive- misunderstanding on my part. So do you just use TID for obedience and just general obedience for the show ring? ROM: Congrats on your results! When you work out what you're going to do can you let me know! I have yet to decide what I'm going to do with the pup as well, I've got several months to train her up for the show ring (she's going through that super ugly stage!) so I'll see how we go and wing it I spose!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 K9: Training in prey drive isnt a coomon thing for conformation showing, but you can make it work for you.. It is pretty hard to beat a dog that is very focussed on the handler during the stand for exam, it looks great.. I have also used it for dogs with aggression problems toward the judges, by putting the dog in high prey drive before teh stand for exam, so the dogs mind wasnt on who was examining him, but where is the damn ball! When a little more focus work is added to those dogs that are breaking the gait, they will look spectacular... It isnt a must do, but is sure is a can do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 I think it will have to be a 'must do' for Daegon, he CAN look great, but he chooses not to because he is a lazy bum and hates stacking so he makes himself look as bad as he possibly can...which is bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 K9: adding some drive will def help him then, but also look at your command style vocal tonation etc, revving this up alone can really make a difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Is there anyone out there that does train their dog in drive and does show their dog as well? I'm really keen to hear ideas and experiences!!! I do. Well to the extend of the limitations of my dogs prey drive. I do not use prey drive in the ring, for now my girl doesnt have enough focus. I would use the prey before going in the ring if the dog was lacking motivation, but not on the dog that is eager as prey drive training is a high energy, often jumps etc, which in the show ring you want to eliminate (the jumps that is). The focus on the handlers face is fantastic if you are able to free stand your dog and be at the front, if you need to hold on to your dog for the exam, that can create a problem as if you move around the dog and it looks at your face up it might break the stack. Also in the gait the dogs should have the head up and be looking straight ahead, not really at your face. What motivators do you curently use Seita? and how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 20, 2006 Author Share Posted October 20, 2006 Wow! More replies thanks guys! Myszka: I'm currently using an orbee ball and I've only just started training drive - been adding focus for 2 days so far! The reason behind me asking was mostly just curiosity on whether ppl used this form of training for the show ring. I have a very excitable puppy who is highly distracted by the whole show atmosphere and thought maybe TID would be useful for getting her focus. I know that I can train focus and the whole show thing out of drive with obedience but was wondering whether there would be benefits to using drive. I can see pros and cons to using drive in the show ring mostly due to the focus (ie - for gaiting you want the dog looking ahead not at you, but for the stack you want the dog looking at you or even the judge) so perhaps I could train just the stack in drive and leave the gaiting out of drive... although I suppose that you could train a dog to gait and look ahead in drive... Argghh the options!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Tollersowned: sorry I didn't realise that you trained in drive- misunderstanding on my part. So do you just use TID for obedience and just general obedience for the show ring? No thats ok i didnt say i did both lol I dont really do competitive obedience at the moment i use TID for agility and flyball though. With showing i only use the "show" command which they will stand and look alert too, thats about as far as obedience goes for me in the show ring and its the only time i will use it. I didnt say using TID for showing is bad but its going to be very hard to get them to control themselves while gaiting and some judges will put up with a dog breaking and everything but the majority do not as a dog that looks good stacked must also be able to move properly and its hard to prove that if the dog is skipping and jumping lol If your dog is only a puppy i would worry about the focus just yet, they are puppies and the show ring is exciting and 99% of judges understand this and take it into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Seita - I dont know if you have beent to K9s workshops or not but the first basic excercise in TID is a sit command than the focus is build from there - correct me if Im wrong pls. You would certainly want to avoid the dog going in front of you and doing an auto sit as it waits for a ball or the next comand, so you jsut need to think of an excercise that will practice the stack. As for the focus, in my breed the arch of the neck is an important thing, and if the dog looks up at you it wont arch the neck, so althought it might be impressive and "cool" might not be ideal for some breeds. Here is an example for you, the boy (on the left) looks down, the girl looks at me for a dobe the boy is in a better stack. You might also see that Im holding a leaf for her to focus on, as she was flat and didnt want to stand I used a bit of drive to motivate her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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