Hip Scores

[wheres my rock]

Hi i look at hip scores and they say 13 or 6 etc what is the classification for really good hips

[shoemonster]

Isn't the lower the number the better? And perfect is zero? (I could be really wrong here)

[wheres my rock]

thast true but wheres the cut of is 13 good ok very good when do you start to think thast pretty bad

[Hazz]

Each breed has a breed average, it's acceptable to breed from dogs under the breed average.

Obviously 0 is perfect but any score under the average is 'good'

What breed are you talking about ?

[wheres my rock]

ok say brittany but forgetting averages thinking of the actual hip if a dogs is above say ten would ist still be a good performance dog or can it be higher and still not have problems later

[MolassesLass]

Hip scores can be expressed as a score for each hip (1:2) or a total score (3). A perfect score is a total of 0, the worst possible is 106. Each breed has an average score for all submitted xrays. Generally breeders won't use a dog with a hip score above the breed average. IMO hips that are even (3:3 = 6) are better than the same total but very uneven (1:5 = 6).

May be of interest: International Hip Score Comparison (Australia is the same as Britain)

Edited October 17, 2006 by molasseslass

[shoemonster]

I think when the report comes back it has the breeds average on it

[shoemonster]

Wouldn't it depend on the individual dog? Some dogs may have high scores but not be affected as much as others?

[Hazz]

The breed average for the Brittany is 13.2 so anything below is fine.

Also as ML said it is better to have even hip scores than uneven - even if one of the uneven scores are 0 or 1

Edited October 17, 2006 by Hazz

[MolassesLass]

Hazz - Are you saying that you wouldn't get a dog with hips 1 point out or just that you think even is better? Sorry, I'm probably being daft in having to ask.

[Hazz]

No ML I meant a fair deviation ie. 0-6 etc.

I'd rather get a dog 1 point out on the lower end of the scale ie 1:2 but I'd rather get even if the choice was between say 4:3 and 3:3

does that make sense it's easier to talk rather then write it down logically

Edited October 17, 2006 by Hazz

[wheres my rock]

thast what im asking ys some dogs will not have probs with high score and others with low scores may have problems but i would assume that would only be the case to an extent when looking performance dogs that will be working hard in agility obedience and th field obviously the lower the score the better but what would eb the highest score you would accept

yes i can see ven would matter as then they will bear weight evenly so to speak

[MolassesLass]

Yes, I get what you are saying now, I read the "/" as indicating a hip score of "0:1" rather than what you meant of "0 or 1".

what would eb the highest score you would accept

Sorry for heading off-topic WMR. I know of a GSD that had a score in the 50's that did agility and retired at what would be considered the usual age, in his case it didn't matter. If I was purchasing an adult dog for competition then I would want something less than 10 and roughly even ("roughly even" for me means take the scores, add them up and divide by two, ensure the difference between the hips is not greater than that. 2:4 yes, 1:5 no). However, if I wanted to breed with the dog then I'd be more stringent, if the price was quite high I would be more stringent. It would really be a case by case issue for me. Sorry to be of no help!

Edited October 17, 2006 by molasseslass

[Hazz]

Sorry I'll edit the post

[wheres my rock]

cool thast what i was wondering i though anything over ten would be more risky for having problems down the trck i know you can manage these things really well these days but why start behind the eight ball

[MolassesLass]

10 is just the number I have decided on, not much science behind it, so please don't take it as gospel.

Dr Malcolm B Willis, highly regarded genetisist, says the following in an article about Border Collies and HD:

Some 42% of the breed score ten or better, which is an excellent score and should be suitable for breeding purposes anywhere. Some 77% score 15 or better which is also a suitable score and at which level few if any dogs should experience clinical problems.

- Source

Which would most probably relate to other breeds as well.

OFA hip scores trends here.

Plenty more reading linked from here.

[wheres my rock]

thanks for that am off to read now

[helen]

When I first got my dog's hips scored at Werribee I asked the person who x-rays and is also one of the few people who is qualified to score hips this exact question, what do these numbers actually mean.

Even he could not give a straight answer. He said size of the dog could be a factor. A high score may not mean that a dog will develop problems (but of course is does not mean the dog will not).

When purchasing a pup it is the parent's scores you need to look at, you will not know the score of the pup, it is too young. In breeding I use the current average score of 11.7 as a guide. I think the Rottie club look at the total of both parents, not the individual dogs.

I will in future use penn hipp scores.

Don't overlook elbow scores of parents. The bit of paper Werribee University Vet Clinic gave me has a bit of paper attached. It said they do not recommend the use of dogs with a higher elbow score than 1-1 for breeding. Personally I would want to breed a 1-1 with a 0-0 elbow score. Just think of the pressure put on the elbow of a dog jumping regularly in agility, triple that for a flyball dog.

[goldielover]

If you're going to get into the nitty gritty, I'd look at scores a few generations back and not just the sire/dam and great sire/dam, but also their other offspring and their siblings. This can take quite a bit of research. If there is an on-line database of the breed you're interested in, that may be a start as most will have a vertical pedigree option as well. There may not be all of the scores, but then at least you can ask around.