Best Packaged Food For My Dog?

[adzza]

Hey all,

I have a 12 month old adopted mastiff/ridgeback. Hes a big boy. About 40kg at the moment. Anyways, I have had him for about 3 months now. We adore him. I started feeding him pal, and pedigree, then went to natures gift can food. I now have him on supercoat, and this premium dog food roll I buy at the super market.

Anyways, after reading through the forums, I realized there are much better things I could be buying to feed him. That "how to grade your dogs food" thread is great. My question is this:

I work a lot, and also run a business, so buying food is much easier than having to make it as I have limited time as it is. If I buy a premium brand dry food, is that comparable to making food for him, provided I give him tyhe occasional egg, raw mince, etc? Ans most of all, where the hell in Melbourne do you buy foods like Dick Van Pattens, and Merrick!!! I have googled it, and no shops in melb seem to sell the stuff. Any help would be great as I want him on the best possible food I can buy. Cheers. Adz.

[SibesOnly]

Hi Adz,

I just replied to a similar thread a brought up a point regarding activity levels and fat content which you may like to take a look at. I believe the general consensus is that the premium brands are designed to be a 'total diet'. I'd love to feed my dogs a 'barf' diet, but I just don't have the time. So a premium brand is great - its also very easy to manage weight effectively.

So i find a premium brand and a few raw meaty bones (to keep their teeth in tip top shape) for us working types works well. BTW nutrition is something that i think is important for my dogs, so I always chat with my vet about it whever I'm there. have a chat with the vet next time you are there for shots/check up etc.

Edited October 16, 2006 by SibesOnly

[Miranda]

BTW nutrition is something that i think is important for my dogs, so I always chat with my vet about it whever I'm there. have a chat with the vet next time you are there for shots/check up etc.

Just be aware that not all vets are experts in dog nutrition and in fact a lot of vets know only the basics and will simply encourage you to buy whatever brand they sell themselves. It pays to do your own research and find out which foods produce the best results in your particular dog.

Actually the local vet would be the last place I'd go to obtain advice on what to feed my dogs, I'm not saying that all vets lack expertise in this area, but in my experience a lot of them certainly do.

[KitKat]

Ok...rough guide for packaged foods

Super Premium-

Royal Canin

Nutro

EaglePack

ProPlan

Eukaneuba (sp)

Hills

Advance

Nutrience

Natural Balance (from WA - available from www.pricelesspets.com.au)

Dick Van Pattens Natural Balance - available from some PetCafe's

Premium food;

Iams

Good food;

Supercoat

Pedigree Performance

Optimum

Purina One

Bonnie

Only problem with checking with your vet is that if they stock a food that is the one they are going to advise you use. Most will also be totally against raw feeding which is an option if it suits your dog and suits your lifestyle.

[Lozzie]

Whereabouts in Melb are you?

Shoemonster on here and I buy a premade BARF mix for about $3/kg from a shop in Mulgrave (cnr Dandenong rd and Springvale rd). Its made fresh every day and cheaper than I could make it myself.

Shoemonster feeds complete raw, I supplement with kibble (advance)

[SibesOnly]

Miranda: Yes there is the potential for this, guess its up to how much you trust your vet. Mine supplies Hills but his recommendations were 'brand neutral'. He has even gone on to explain the subtle differences between the brands. My vet gets enough money out of me without needing to try to stitch me up for dog food as well But I generally agree with your comments on vet biase.

I guess what I was trying to say was that your vet will have an appreciation for the current health of your dog, any history of weight problems, blah blah blah. Of course if he happens to recommend the brand he stocks in his front office then you may want to be cautious.

[shoemonster]

Yep as Loz said I feed the meat/veg mix, and chicken necks or frames which I get from the same place for between $1-$2 a kilo and sardines

Suz has started all raw too and she's really happy as well

I only plan their food once a month, and stick it all in a freezer in the garage

Edited October 17, 2006 by shoemonster

[MolassesLass]

Ok...rough guide for packaged foods

Remember that each person's definition of "super", "premium" and "good" is only that person's opinion.

IMO SuperCoat is a much better food than Advance or ProPlan, too many people can't accept it's a premium food because it doesn't come with the premium price tag.

I feed a majority BARF mix (probably pretty similar to Shoemonster and Lozzie's) with a little SuperCoat dry (Adult Energy or Working for the BCs and Adult Large Breed for the Bullmastiff).

[adzza]

Thanks for the replies.

All in all, I guess im after a great all rounder food, that will give hime what he needs from day to day. Anything I thrown in extra is a bonus such as bones, mince, eggs, etc.

I just want the best food I can get for him. Hes very energetic, like a lot, and never stops. Hes also pretty slim. Not underweight, but just right im guessing.

[MolassesLass]

For a large breed mix like you have, he's probably still growing to a certain extent (will probably be up until 2 years) and being lean while growing is good. If he's underweight rather than just lean and if you're only feeding once a day, try twice a day (add a little to his current single feed and then split in two), not only can this allow him to consume more food if he needs to but it can help lessen the chance of the deadly bloat condition.

[malleerr]

Hi Adz,

I have an 18 month old Rhodesian Ridgeback and she is feed Advance "wet food" and Iams Large Breed Dry Food for pups 12 months - 24 months, with add extras like veggies and chicken tossed in by us. She has a beautiful coat, looks fantastic heaps of energy and does really well on it. I purchase it from Pet Stock which is local to me, and find it reasonably priced, can't remember exavct figures but i think i pay $33.00 for a slab of the tin food iam pretty sure there is around about 20 tins and the Iams dry food for 9kilos is around the same price......i think....don't have the best memory.

I think it all comes down to personal preference and what your dog likes and does well on. I would love to have Mallee on a BARF diet but it does not agree with her tummy and makes her sick....

slightly off topic - but would love to see some pics of your boy

[KitKat]

My listing of the foods isn't going by my 'personal opinion' else Hills would not be in the SP range - but i am going by quality of ingredients and how concentrated the kibble is.

Eg i feed two cups of RC to my adult dog - i would need to feed twice that amount or more of some other brands. BUT it does come down to what suits your dogs...i know some who do wonderfully on Pedigree Performance/Supercoat for example - and that's great as it suits the dog. Comes down to if you think your dog can be in better condition then try something else - if they are healthy/great coat/energy levels/condition etc then stick with what you are using.

I mean...my Bronx does great on RC but not Advance - yet i know other GSD's who do brilliantly on Advance - comes down to the individual dog - my old dog used to get chum/pal kibble - and was always in great condition *shrugs*

[ShesaLikeableBiBear]

Suggest that you contact 4 Paws and More Pet Supplies in Keilor Park, they carry a range of foods including Nutro, a super premium food.

[MolassesLass]

My listing of the foods isn't going by my 'personal opinion' else Hills would not be in the SP range - but i am going by quality of ingredients and how concentrated the kibble is.

Fair enough, apologies for my assumption. Can you provide a link or other information on what you used to grade the brands you listed for quality and concentration (always learning)?

My quick calculations using the recently posted method produced the following (with recommended feeding amounts for a 25kg dog eating only dry):

Royal Canin 4800 Energy - 96 (438g)

ProPlan Performance - 87 (~299g)

SuperCoat Adult Energy - 85 (450g)

Science Diet Active Adult - 85 (~275g)

Eukanuba Premium Performance - 85 (310g)

EaglePack Power Formula - 84 (?)

Advance Adult Energy - 64 (490g)

Adzza, there is an old (2002) Choice study on pet foods that may be of interest here.

[KitKat]

Couldn't find the exact ones i was after but here's some snippets and link to full write-up etc...

"Super-premium” formulas typically use animal based protein rather than vegetable protein, are more concentrated and more digestible, and have other added health benefits which are substantiated by research and clinical trials.

From Here

We found a great deal of information on dog-food ingredients, including details on the manufacturing process, and exposés about the origins of dog-food components. Few reviews actually recommend specific brands of dog food, and we found many reviews that instruct dog owners to rotate between three foods your dog likes. While most reviews stop short of declaring any best dog food, reviews are remarkably consistent about ingredients lists, and what pet owners should look for when reading dog-food labels. We used these guidelines to perform our own ingredient analyses to recommend the best dog foods in ConsumerSearch Fast Answers. However, armed with the dog-food information below, you'll be able to identify other high-quality foods for your pet as well.

Pet-nutrition experts say that the best dog food is made from human-grade ingredients like meat, whole grains and vegetables. What you don't want is a lot of filler as the primary ingredients; these are items that have less nutritional benefit. According to the Animal Protection Institute, dogs can absorb almost all the nutrients from white rice, but grains like oats, flour and wheat have almost no nutritional value for dogs. Corn products aren't very valuable either, and peanut hulls have no value at all.

Dogs love meat and they need protein. Unlike cats, who need high amounts of protein and no carbohydrates at all, dogs need as much as 50 percent carbohydrates, but reviews say meat should be the first ingredient, followed by more absorbable grains like rice. If you've read any dog-food labels, the term "by-product" appears a lot. Meat by-product consists mainly of animal parts that are not used for human consumption, such as bones, organs, blood, fatty tissue and intestines. If a label says "chicken by-product," all the parts must come from chicken; the same goes for lamb, beef, etc.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to by-products in dog food. Some say that because a dog in the wild would eat the entire animal when killing prey, including skin, organs and bones, some amount of by-products in dog food is just fine. What you don't want, say reviews, is unidentified by-products, often listed as "meat by-products." Experts say this could include zoo animals, road kill and according to Jessica Smith's article for NewsTarget.com, '4-D' livestock (dead, diseased, disabled, dying). Most shockingly, "meat by-products" can even include euthanized dogs and cats. In 1990 the American Veterinary Medical Association and the FDA confirmed that some pet food companies were using the bodies of euthanized pets as by-products in their foods. It turns out that this practice wasn't widespread, but limited to small rural rendering plants and a few other assorted links in the pet food manufacturing chain. For these reasons, reviews that do approve of some by-products in pet food say that dog owners should look for specific origin, such as 'chicken by-product' or 'lamb by-product.'

From Here

Cup for cup, premium foods typically contain more calories and are more digestible than popular brands, so it takes less premium food to meet your dog's needs. Also, smaller amounts of highly digestible food mean smaller stools--another advantage of premium food.

Another difference between popular and premium brands is the batch-to-batch consistency of ingredients in the food. Most popular brands use variable formulas; this means the nutrient content listed on the label's "guaranteed analysis" is uniform from batch to batch, but the actual ingredients may vary depending on cost and availability. Premium brands are usually fixed-formula foods, delivering consistent nutrient levels with the same ingredients from batch to batch

From here

The premium foods studied had an average of 22% crude protein and 10% crude fat. The super-premium dog foods examined had an average of 27% crude protein and 15% crude fat. The economy brands averaged 20% crude protein and 8% crude fat.

The super-premium foods suggested feeding an average of 1-3/4 cups of food per day for our 40 lb. dog. Premium brands recommended 3-1/4 cups, while the econo-brands instructed feeding 6 cups a day.

It costs an average of 24 cents a day to feed a super-premium brand, compared to 26 cents a day for premium brand, while the feeding cost would be an average of 31 cents a day for an econo-brand. That’s right - the econo-brand actually costs you 7 cents more a day to feed your dog than a super-premium does.

From Here - interesting site this one

Just some links -

http://www.gooddogmagazine.com/dogfoodcosts.htm

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/petlabel.htm

http://www.aafco.org/ - not sure if we have our own version of this - but a high % of foods available here are from the US and/or registered with the AAFCO

[MolassesLass]

"Super-premium” formulas typically use animal based protein rather than vegetable protein,

SuperCoat has Chicken as the first ingredient.

What you don't want, say reviews, is unidentified by-products, often listed as "meat by-products."

No unidentified by-products in SuperCoat.

Premium brands are usually fixed-formula foods, delivering consistent nutrient levels with the same ingredients from batch to batch

SuperCoat is fixed formula.

not sure if we have our own version of this - but a high % of foods available here are from the US and/or registered with the AAFCO

SuperCoat, even being 100% Australian owned, manufactured and ingredient sourced is AAFCO accredited. Being Australian also probably accounts for why it is never listed in any of the American comparison studies.

I've done up a comparison chart here rating a number of items, and SuperCoat is not that much different to most of the "Super Premium" foods you listed (and I'd say a fair bit better than Advance).

While I certainly don't think SuperCoat is the best food out there, I do think it's incorrect to list it so far removed in your listing (hence why I questioned whether it was merely personal opinion) especially given Advance's results and the listing you gave it. SuperCoat does need to be fed at a slightly higher amount, contains a little less protein and a fair bit less fat but it is quality ingredients and it presents suberb value for money.

Sorry to harp on, but like Macca's, I guess I'm sick of the stories and would prefer people made up their own mind. And thank you for passing on those links, it's always good to re-evaluate your dog's food even if it's only a supplement item.

:D

[Steve]

Hang on though Some of those foods listed as super premium have grains as 3 of the top 4 ingredients . One has lamb as the first but three different types of rice listed so its not obvious that rice is the main ingredient but it is the main ingredient .

The guaranteed analysis in one is so close to another which is dirt cheap its not funny though the ingredient list is detailed there's no measure ments for what amounts of each are in them. Though vitamin B for example is listed as an ingredient there is no way of telling how much they put in [ especially in comparison to other vitamins and minerals] and they only guarantee a handful of things in the final product.

The term super premium is news to me and Im eager to find out why its being used and what qualifies a food to be considered this over any other compariably priced product.