Steve K9Pro Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) A: he is slowly getting the "no licks" command and I have had to lower the intensity of my corrections & intensity of distraction to achieve it, being an adolecent, who was seriously understimulated previously, he's taking to training like a duck to water! since it has been over 8 years since I've had an adolecent dobe on my hands (& that one was well trained by 10 mths) I had almost forgotten the passion dobes have to learn their lessons so quickly. K9: Ok, but think of it this way, you were either over correcting or correcting at the correct level as you say you were getting changes I will not suggest you were under correcting. If you were at the correct level, backing off will stop the behaviour changes, ie no training will take place.... You need to re focus on the reward side of training & use a correction that is at the correct level. Backing off will teach the dog the licking is stopping corrections... Edited October 11, 2006 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 K9: Ok, but think of it this way, you were either over correcting or correcting at the correct level as you say you were getting changes I will not suggest you were under correcting.If you were at the correct level, backing off will stop the behaviour changes, ie no training will take place.... You need to re focus on the reward side of training & use a correction that is at the correct level. Backing off will teach the dog the licking is stopping corrections... never fear, I'm an aries...so backing off is not in my vocab! ;) I did have to adjust my intensity of correction though, as Zillah seems (despite his earlier contradictory reactions) quite astute & sensitive. Each day I adjust my interaction with him, although still maintain a consistancy in what I expect in his behaviour (bottom line :p) It's an ongoing process due to his (indeterminate) past history..and it's only been just over 2 months since I got him. however, it is comming along nicely if I take a broader perspective on it..he has progressed in leaps & bounds! (I just had it easy for the last 8 yrs with Daims....and sunk into complacency as a consequence ) ;) I began to believe that Daim's was the "norm"! unfortunately, Zillah, didn't have the same enviroment that Daim's had in his formative years, so the work continues :D Zillah has actually relaxed into a dog who is currently sitting on the couch, napping & quite content...which according to the RSPCA handlers that looked after him for a month, is behaviour that they couldn't even imagine from him, so I must be doing something right! ( the first comment they all had, was supprise that he had 4 feet on the ground!) as all they had seen was an exhuberant dobe who pulled, jumped & generally was overcome to excitement of attention! He's now (I can begin to see) a dog who can contain himself, despite his enthusiasm :p because he learned very quickly that there is a level of expected behaviour when those boundaries are consitantly reinforced and rewarded. ;) ...we're getting closer to the fine tuning stage now, & I'm really impressed with his willingness to work with this, all he needed was some direction & leadership...he's intelligent enough to work it out for himself ;) as for his licking....it's his learned way of "making things right" and the more we work together, the more he learns that he doesn't have to resort to this behaviour....like I said, I was just being an irritable "bitch" when I posted this thread! and it's an ongoing process of levels....correct one issue, and then adjust depending on the response, every day is a learning day at the moment...for both of us ;) & I'm taking longer than he is, because I still am affected by the loss of Daims. (and the level of behaviour that Daims displayed) ultimately, having "been there & done that" I know that Zillah is progressing even quicker than Daim's did at the same age...but being an impatient aries...I have to continually remind myself that it did take work & dedication until I had a dog like Daims! & I have no doubt that Zillah can ultimately achieve even more than Daim's did, if I give him a supportive environment....for a start, at least we don't have to stop at EVERY tree! :D ...Amazing how two little dangly bits can alter behaviour! to answer your observation...I was eventually "over correcting"...however in the first month, strong correction was required at times. I've had to modify it now that Zillah is responding to me quickly & positively, as if I didn't I would undo all the work we have so far done. Like I said, it's a day by day balance until we reach synchronicity ;) & lucky for me...we seem to be getting very close to that already! :D Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 (edited) A: never fear, I'm an aries...so backing off is not in my vocab! :D K9: you might want to read your previous post to me, backing off has slipped into your vocab... Lowering intensity = backing off... A: I did have to adjust my intensity of correction though, as Zillah seems (despite his earlier contradictory reactions) quite astute & sensitive. K9: sensitive dogs usually are sensitive to the way the correction is applied, not the intensity... A: Zillah has actually relaxed into a dog who is currently sitting on the couch, napping & quite content...which according to the RSPCA handlers that looked after him for a month, is behaviour that they couldn't even imagine from him, so I must be doing something right! K9: just be a little cautious of the evidence that you must be doing right, in the above example, every dog at some time gets tired or bored.. A: as for his licking....it's his learned way of "making things right" and the more we work together, the more he learns that he doesn't have to resort to this behaviour... K9: maybe its just me, but I was under the impression you asked for an answer, I gave you one in which you replied I hit the nail on the head, & now your telling me what is going on lol, A: to answer your observation...I was eventually "over correcting"...however in the first month, strong correction was required at times. K9: or,,,, you were putting the dog under too much distraction for its level of training... There are many sides to the dog training coin... I dont teach things under distraction nor do I increase levels of correction, I would rather decrease distraction until the dog is ready... Preventing the dog from resorting to licking me through submission as it feels that is what I require to cease correcting it... I am really glad your dog is working well for you... Edited October 11, 2006 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 That is a good point K9... I was probbably putting Zillah under too much distraction on one level, as this was a dog who to all intents & purposes had no basic training, as I personally had an expectation that he could eventually behave like my trained dobe (who had a much better foundation), given the instruction & consistency. The beautiful thing is that Zillah has reminded me to "every season , turn, turn , turn" and I have adjusted my training schedule to take this into account. He's not Daim's, he hasn't had the same preparation & I need to work with him as an individual :D a timely reminder for someone who was perhaps getting a bit blase in training animals (not really been tested for at least 2 years!..horses & dogs )...the pertinant point is that I had "students" who had at least minimal basic training :D In my observation, Zillah (maybe abberant) doesn't respond to the type of correction applied...all seem to have their success & failure....however he is very sensitive to the intensity of the application (sometimes in situations of high distraction, it is the intensity alone that draws his attention) I'm trying at the moment, to correct this...so that the mode, rather than the intensity is the driving factor. and it's definately working, but it's a day by day lesson like you said...I'm endevouring to decrease distractions, so that minimal correction is applied...and where correction is decreased, it is counterbalanced with an increase in positive motivation., so in a sense, I don't see this as "backing off" as the balance is mitigated ;) & yes...it is working..faster than I even projected ;) Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 never fear, I'm an aries... oh oh :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 :D hehehe...so now you "get" me myzka :D Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 :Dhehehe...so now you "get" me myzka ;) Aus yep Aus :D just tell you ever so often that you are the greatest ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 never fear, I'm an aries... oh oh I 'get' you too now Aus...I live with an Aries :D Lucky for you guys I'm a Leo so if we ever have a big fight on here I will forgive you in the morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Just coat yourself head to toe in the 'Stop Chew' Spray, works a treat LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 never fear, I'm an aries... oh oh I 'get' you too now Aus...I live with an Aries :D Lucky for you guys I'm a Leo so if we ever have a big fight on here I will forgive you in the morning :D oh heck! does your other half ever get a chance at the mirror in the bathroom!!!??? ;) ;) (my brother is a leo ;)) and yeah, I do respond well to acceptance & adulation :p :p :D Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 my OH and my two best friends are arieses. I have it hard with them as a capricorn, but at least if we plan something they know Ill be persistant enough to organise it for all of them and just watch how they fight :D Sorry it was me that took this completly off topic, appologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 never fear, I'm an aries...so backing off is not in my vocab! ;) Good god... that explains our stand-off... I am an Aries as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 never fear, I'm an aries...so backing off is not in my vocab! ;) ;) Good god... that explains our stand-off... I am an Aries as well! :D :D ...hey at least we forget it the next day! ....and it was my strong aries protection drive that brought me to comment in the first place. ..actually, being an aries with a Saggie rising...I never stop talking! (but my pisces moon makes quite a sensitive little lamb sometimes ;) ) as for going off topic...heck I'm an aries...I can be distracted by anything new & exciting, so it's not an issue at all! staying focussed on one topic is! :p ;) Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 as for going off topic...heck I'm an aries...I can be distracted by anything new & exciting, so it's not an issue at all! staying focussed on one topic is! How true is that You can imagine how colourful our house gets at times with a Leo and an Aries... It may suprise you but I don't spend much time at all in front of the mirror (and it shows ) I probably would if I was 10kg lighter though :p Is it an Aries thing to think you know what other people want to do ?? My OH is back into his martial arts training and now apparently I want to get fit ?? I want a punching bag ? He even bought me gloves to spar with him Noooooo I do NOT !!!! Sometimes I want to punch him but that is different to wanting to train with him I do want to get fitter but I'd rather work out with my dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sals77 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 As it's hard to reinforce not licking (the behaviour you want), you couls consider a little squeeze of lemon on the tounge. Not sure if that's been suggested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 As it's hard to reinforce not licking (the behaviour you want), you couls consider a little squeeze of lemon on the tounge. Not sure if that's been suggested That could work if I get desperate...he knows about lemons after he grabbed a wedge that fell on the floor once...should have seen the look on his face!! At the moment, a quick pfft of breath in the direction of his nose is doing the trick (must be all the garlic I eat!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ) oh & Sunny ...aries are much better at looking after everyone elses problems than they are attending to their own ...don't worry, he'll get bored with it soon enough & then he'll want you to start rock climbing or base jumping! Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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