MolassesLass Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Thanks Myszka, just found a site and even if it wasn't banned by the ANKC, Bullmastiff's can't do it. Oh well. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEQ ACO Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Sch is a set of the same type of excercises, the bite work is only one part, the others are obiedicne and tracking.The bite work is pretty much the same every time for the dog the dog is to bite the sleave the "tents" are simmilar the way the decoy runs etc. True personal protection gets the dog to bite the human not the protective sleave. Id say a well trained sch dog is extremly reliable and pretty much a dream for most pet owners. So SCH includes publicly encouraging / permitting a dog to attack a person? Where I work this type of training would automatically qualify you for prosecution and possibly a DD order for the dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Here is some more info on Schutzhund http://www.sportdogaustralia.com/news/whatisipo.php http://www.dvgamerica.com/ I watched the Nationals last year with Myszka - it was amazing to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 (edited) to the dog it is not attacking the person it is biting the prey item which happens to be a sleeve...the same as many of you people train your dogs to bite the ball on the ropes and rags...the dog isnt focused on the person but the movement of the sleeve and the commands from the owner to bite the sleeve, Schutzhund training isnt personal protection training far from it, i own 2 schutzhund trained dogs and 2 Personal protection dogs.....i wouldnt expect my schutzhund trained dogs to protect me in a dangerous situation any more then i would expect a untrained dog to, Reality bites, i think it was a belgian shepherd that took out IPO3 not a german shepherd..from memory it was bryan vom haus mecki? its now called IPO not Schutzhund in Australia, edit to fix up jibberish Edited October 5, 2006 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEQ ACO Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 to the dog it is not attacking the person it is biting the prey item which happens to be a sleeve...the same as many of you people train your dogs to bite the ball on the ropes and rags...the dog isnt focused on the person but the movement of the sleeve and the commands from the owner to bite the sleeve,Schutzhund training isnt personal protection training far from it, i own 2 schutzhund trained dogs and 2 Personal protection dogs.....i wouldnt expect my schutzhund trained dogs to protect me in a dangerous situation any more then i would expect a untrained dog to, At the risk of arguing pedantics Our local law states; A person must not cause, encourage or permit a dog to attack or worry another person or an animal. The definition of attack is also stated in the law; "the act of an animal holding any part of a person, animal, or thing in it's mouth whether or not the holding is accompanied by shaking, pulling, or pushing and whether or not such person, animal or thing suffers any injury. So technically you are encouraging and permitting your dog to attack a person. I wonder what your clubs PLI provider has to say about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Jeff Last year it was definitely a Malinois that took the Sch III, don't know about this year. Last year I only saw Mals and Shepherds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 A person must not cause, encourage or permit a dog to attack or worry another person or an animal. Well that doesnt apply than, as we have explained to you, the dog is biting an item not a human nor an animal. The item happends to be a sleave that is worn by a trained decoy, that doesnt suffer any injury. I cant imagine a decoy being worried either. The definition of attack is also stated in the law;"the act of an animal holding any part of a person, animal, or thing in it's mouth whether or not the holding is accompanied by shaking, pulling, or pushing and whether or not such person, animal or thing suffers any injury. I declare my baby puppy dobermann a DD, she held my hand in her mouth this morning.... and she was hold my grown up dobe males neck or ears in her mouth several times a day............ and sometimes he is worried . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 A person must not cause, encourage or permit a dog to attack or worry another person or an animal.The definition of attack is also stated in the law; "the act of an animal holding any part of a person, animal, or thing in it's mouth whether or not the holding is accompanied by shaking, pulling, or pushing and whether or not such person, animal or thing suffers any injury. So technically you are encouraging and permitting your dog to attack a person. so technically you cannot get your dog to fetch a ball as it is holding a "thing" in its mouth.....rightio...off you go to your local park to enforce the law officer I wonder what your clubs PLI provider has to say about it? probably the same thing they have been saying for 20 years.....you show me a schutzhund competition in australia that has been closed down due to it being illegal to have a dog attack someone, or a schutzhund dog that has been declared dangerous for that matter... seeing as you are in queensland why dont you take it up with the head developement officer of the queensland police dog squad who has been competing in schutzhund for 15+ years, let me know how that goes... Kavik, last year it was a german shepherd who won: Marko z Blatenskeho zamku was the german shepherd for the 2005 comp. and felix's malinois corvette came in 2nd but this year i think Bryan Vom Haus Mecki (malinois) won, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chell Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Just want add that Bryan is actually going to be competing in the next world titles overseas. And there was a comment on the first page about him looking scared of his handler in the video that myszka posted of him in last years nationals, i can assure you he is not at all sensitive or scared of his owner, just high in drive and looking for the next command. They are a great team to watch working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) that is most coincidental that I have filmed and posted the winner, I didnt know what dog it is!!! I liked the work of the mal - was alot more animated and happy. Thanks for telling me what dog I have filmed and good luck to him int he o/s competitions. Edited October 6, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 jeff jones is correct in what he is saying. the dog is trained on the sleeve, and not all would be a reliable protection dog. There is more dog attacks from the untrained family pet, part bred, small breeds. A shutzhund trained dog is more/highly trained in obedience than the other 2 phases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEQ ACO Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 [so technically you cannot get your dog to fetch a ball as it is holding a "thing" in its mouth.....rightio...off you go to your local park to enforce the law officer No because the law doesn't say your dog cant attack a ball, or rope or toy, it specifies person or animal!! If the sleeve is attached to a person the dog is attacking a person. BTW Police / Defence / Licensed security providers have approval in writing to conduct this type of activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityBites Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 You would have to come and see an IPO club for yourself and watch the dogs, and form your own opinion if it is dangerous or not. But until you have seen it, don't assume anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 No because the law doesn't say your dog cant attack a ball, or rope or toy, it specifies person or animal!! If the sleeve is attached to a person the dog is attacking a person. Well the ball is attached to me so 6montsh old puppy should be declared dangerous as she is attacking me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chell Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Cute puppy Myszka. "You would have to come and see an IPO club for yourself and watch the dogs, and form your own opinion if it is dangerous or not. But until you have seen it, don't assume anything" Well said RealityBites If more people came and watched us train in all weather conditions, till late at night and went out tracking in the freezing cold winter mornings and saw the level of commitment that is required to undertake this sport and the unbelievable bond it creates between dog and handler then they might not be so quick to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 No because the law doesn't say your dog cant attack a ball, or rope or toy, it specifies person or animal!! If the sleeve is attached to a person the dog is attacking a person.BTW Police / Defence / Licensed security providers have approval in writing to conduct this type of activity. the law also doesnt state it can bite a ball... "the act of an animal holding any part of a person, animal, or thing in it's mouth whether or not the holding is accompanied by shaking, pulling, or pushing and whether or not such person, animal or thing suffers any injury. it states or thing in its mouth....as a law enforcement officer ( ) it is no good for you to quote legislation if you have no idea what it means... please tell me the legal meaning of "thing"... as i can tell you are deeply concerned with the training of these "attack" dogs...why dont you get a group of your ACO chums together and go down to one of the 2 recognised schutzhund clubs in QLD and stop us monsters training these out of control manstoppers....i look forward to seeing you there... Pine Rivers Show Grounds ( Lawnton ) Gympie Road TIMES Every Wendensday 7-9 Pm ====================================================== North Rugby League Club Albert Bishop Park Amelia St. Nundah TIMES Tuesday-Friday 7.15 pm happy hunting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petmezz Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 [ so technically you cannot get your dog to fetch a ball as it is holding a "thing" in its mouth.....rightio...off you go to your local park to enforce the law officer No because the law doesn't say your dog cant attack a ball, or rope or toy, it specifies person or animal!! If the sleeve is attached to a person the dog is attacking a person. BTW Police / Defence / Licensed security providers have approval in writing to conduct this type of activity. Hi SEQ the dogs trained in Schutzhund are trained to bite the bite sleave only, the sleave is very distinctave to the dog and i doght a dog would misstake an arm for a bite sleave. If the sleeve is attached to a person the dog is attacking a person. the sleave is not attached to the persion the sleave is usualy made up of pvc round pipe, wood forming a V around the pvc pipe (easer for the dog to get a good grip) kevler covering the sholder and elbow areas to allow flexability, padding of some sort over the wood and pvc pipe, several layers of Jute to form a replacable gripping serface that allowes a distintave look and feal to the dog. the decoy places his arm down the pipe and their is usualy a bar at the end to hold on to, when ever the decoy want's to release the bite sleave all they have to do is let go of their grip and the whole sleave comes off. thus it is not realy "Attached" to a persion they are holding it. it is a bit like a tug game realy. the goal of the dog is not to visouasly bite and harm the persion, their goal is to win the bite sleave (or another name for it a tug toy). in all honesty that is all they want just a bit of plastic wood and jute after a bite and tug game.should dogs be baned from movies, adds, any film ec that depicks dogs attacking a persion or animal?? do you realy think they allow the dog to attack a persion just to get the sean right?? these dogs are trained to place their teath on to an item that is then placed onto the actor/stunt dubble. the dogs know only to tuch the spacific item as they have been trained to do so, the "bite" item may be hidden in the actor/stunt dubble cloths and is located by the dog by sent. these dogs that do "bite work" for film must have simulare qualities to the Schutzhund trained dog that is recognising the "bite toy", being calm and in controll in unusuall stressfull situations, have briliant obediance, be confident around strang people and most inportantly NOT BITE ANYONE, only the trained bite toy be it a bite sleave or a hidden bite toy, they are not to bite the human. SEQ you have your opinions, that is great and thanks for being friendly i hope this thred can stay that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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