Why Do Dogs Escape?

[Freckles]

To Jefe's owner,

I take great offence to your comments but the last few more so. I think I am a very responsible pet owner and as foster carer for Cordelias rescue I hope she thinks I'm responsible aswell. My breed of choise BEAGLES!!

I have 4 in my yard as I type and to say that if someone opened my gate (which is unlikely as it is padlocked) while I wasn't around and they wonder off makes me a bad owner, well lets just say I can't say what I'd like to

Edited October 6, 2006 by Freckles

[caffiend42]

Calling you a tosser would be rude if it wasn't true, JO.

You have NO clue.

I have one word for you: INSTINCT. You subscribed to Dog Training 101, didn't you?

Can't train a beagle, then don't own one? How about the novel concept of understanding a particular breed's characteristics, strengths and weaknesses and working with them. They are NOT so untrainable or uncontrollable if you know what makes them tick, but clearly that is only what you've heard and not witnessed for yourself. Try asking beagle breeders of 30 years + why they can't breed out certain traits, hence them saying in large letters you can NEVER EVER trust a beagle off lead. In any case, that's just one of the things that makes a beagle a beagle.

Quit while you're waaaay behind, JO.

[wheres my rock]

questions how many dogs have you trained to high levels totally under control no matter the distraction and how long have you been trianing dogs since you gained all this insight jefe

[Jefe's owners]

Thanks Dog Logics!, the way you explained it is alot better than mine.

Freckles, I'm sorry if you or some other members take offence by my posts.

Sad truth is that if the dog runs away when somebody opens the gate of the house, then the owner of that dog has failed to secure the dog properly, as they probably know that they dog would run away.

And another sad truth is that some dogs you can find at dog rescues come from the pound... and some of those found their way to the pound because of owners that failed to secure their dog.

Terrorbull. I don't need to own a beagle to know it would be hard work to train (like any other dog), and I don't need to own a beagle to know that training in drive would work. Training in drive works for any dog... for some dogs is prey drive, for others is food drive, etc... but it works a lot better than giving chesse treats to the dog when it drops on command (which btw, that is not training in food drive). And Yes, I train my dog on drive every night. It is heavy work, yet is not rocket science. Maybe you should give it a go, who knows, you might get better result training a beagle

There is no need to make it a personal attack if you don't agree with what you read. That will not change my point of view. If you can present a reasonable argument (and again, I'm sorry but "Beagle" is not one) you might make a point, and then maybe i'll change my mind, but calling me tosser will not work, and you will continue to take offence on my posts.

And FFS, I never mentioned poor ownership on my original post! (I did it later! ).Yes, I think that if your dog runs away is poor ownership, but mostly I believe is poor training, and that is what this thread is all about.

[Nadia]

Let me see, we have had 3 dogs handed in at work this week.

1. Took fright when the vehicle it was in was involved in an accident. Dog ran off. Picked up 2 kms down the road.

2. Got very interested in a pile of ducks in the park next door and dug out under fence, chased ducks for a while then wandered off in search of more fun.

3. Mower man left gate open.

Just 3 examples of reasons why a dog can be out on the street away from home.

I lost a bitch during a violent storm, she had never escaped before, never has since.

Anyone can have the experience of their dog going missing, anyone.

[raz]

And FFS, I never mentioned poor ownership on my original post! (I did it later! ).Yes, I think that if your dog runs away is poor ownership

Awesome. So now we're all clear I'll say this: You're opinion is shit! But that's OK because you said in your first post in this pontificating bloody thread that if someone thought your opinion was shit that is OK. I also think you're a sanctimonious little turd who admitted you didnt read a thing about dogs until you were given Jefe. When was that dear boy?

Edited October 7, 2006 by raz

[Cordelia]

"When was that dear boy?"

Feb 06.

So much to comment on... so little time. *sigh*

I wonder how many police, customs, rescue dogs run away...

I would think very few..... simply because they do not live in a 'normal' environment. They are kennelled (roof included) and locked in a specifically designed facility. Comparing them to the usual family dog is totally pointless and invalid. ... oh... by 'rescue' I assume you mean SAR dogs??

Ok... now JO... you've been treading on very thin ice with some people here and you are seriously offending a lot of very responsible and good folk here with your high and mighty attitude.

and YES, the way I see it, if your dog sits on command, but yet at the first oportunity it will run away, then yes, you are a bad owner because:

1.- You have failed to secure the dog

2.- You have failed to satifsy the dog drives

3.- You have failed to train you dog propery

1. You are WRONG. Simple as that. Your opinion is based on what you have learnt/been taught working with Jefe ONLY and some books...... You are coming from a VERY narrow and blinkered viewpoint based on minimal knowledge and even less experience with the canine population as a whole.

2. Failing to secure a dog..... well unfortunately, that comes under "shit happens sometimes" where some dogs are concerned. There ARE dogs out there who are Houdinis and CAN and DO escape with regular monotony regardless of what their RESPONSIBLE owners do to prevent it.

I have had a few dogs in care who have managed to escape from my kennels JO. Does THAT make me a bad owner/rescue???? One was larger than Jefe and could scale 11 foot fencing (and when locked in a kennel he ripped the gate off its hinges)... so was that my fault... or his very serious seperation anxiety??

Seperation anxiety etc can cause the most well trained animals to freak out completely and even jump through glass to 'get out' .... they get lost.... how is THAT the owners fault if a storm occurs when noone is home??

What about the dog I know whose owners spent $10,000 on 9 foot colourbond fencing to stop their boy escaping after the enclosure/kennel they had him in was destroyed by him (where he also required 50 odd stitches to sew him back together after pushing through the weld mesh).... they concreted under the fence line to prevent digging... he was a beautifully trained dog.... who was on anti anxiety drugs for seperation.....

He died last year after busting THROUGH the colourbond fence and severing his jugular on the edge of it. Are you honestly saying that he had bad owners????

The dog must get drive satisfaction from you, not from finding the source of the scent. Following the scent and finding the source is the way he will get drive satisfaction from YOU.

Without being rude JO..... I'm sorry but you have NO idea what you are talking about and you are digging yourself deeper with every blinkered comment you make.

Getting rewards from the owner is one thing WHEN YOU ARE THERE. But.... considering the vast majority of dogs escape/wander off when their owners ARE NOT HOME ....... you are giving dogs WAY too much credit for deep thought processess .... and giving too much credence to training NOT overriding inherant instinct (to mate, follow a scent... as scent hounds were BRED to do) or anxiety issues etc.

Dogs will leave because of numerous reasons... seperation anxiety being one, mating being a major one, boredom/noone to stop them etc and most of those reasons have little to do with training and a lot to do with the individual temperament and personality of the dogs who do it.

I will GUARANTEE that Jefe would leave if given enough 'drive' to do so (HIS inherent drive... not your trainging).

Yes, you have trained him well and he is a credit to your dedication.... but don't EVER delude yourself into thinking that he would never ever wander off without you...... he would. Why??? Because he's a dog and he has a small brain that doesn't require much thinking.... so he will follow his instincts, nose... whatever.... should the situation present itself. ..... and that WON'T make you a bad owner if it happens..... it'll just make Jefe exactly what he is.... a dog. (I would also like to point out that Jefe has never been overly concerned about leaving his home environment anyway.... he bonds exceedingly well to people due to being VERY well socialised as a youngster and has little inclination to remove himself from those he has bonded with and his territory...

Edited October 7, 2006 by Cordelia

[Jefe's owners]

questions how many dogs have you trained to high levels totally under control no matter the distraction and how long have you been trianing dogs since you gained all this insight jefe

Q1. None... loooooooooooooooong way to go. only eight months training in drive. but we'll get there. Not sure to which high levels you reffer to, but to me, If the dog doesn't run away, and respond on command, 100% realiability under the circumstances we have trained for, then that is the high level I want to take him. For example, I went to Bones Cafe this morning for the first time, and as the location was massive open space, hundred off leash dogs and kids running around, there were too many distractions, I decided to leave Jefe on leash, as I knew that he would not respond the same way he would do on rose hill park with other 5 dogs around. We are not reaady as a team for such environment, and we might never be ready for it.

Q2. Only eight months! but I have owned dogs for over 20 years... and none of them had run away from home, and I never wandered why until eight months ago. Dog ownership requirements and liability issues around it are very different here in Australia compared to South America, and that forced me to seek help I've got to admit, Like most people I never bothered to read about dog behaviour before. It was only eight months ago when I was taught about dog drives and how to use them to train the dog, and BAM! it hit me in the face. So simple yet so effective. I've never had such great results on such a short time. and now I know why my dogs never ran away from home.

[Rusky]

thanks Raz and Cordelia

I just think quite simply that the OP from this and the rescue thread hasn't got a clue about dogs but would like to think they have, actually they don't know a lot about people either

JO you pee me off with your silly uneducated twitterings. You couldn't even walk your dog if I remember, came on here looking for magic. Suddenly you are an expert on dog training

I can ignore your canine ignorance but you have upset some great people who love their dogs and are desperately searching for them, some for years.

So I can't forgive you and I hope that hole you are digging fills with water.

[wheres my rock]

ive never had a dog run away either the thing is most of what you know is tect book not real life you are assuming to much sure if we lived in a perfect world no dogs would ever do wrong trianing is only a small part of keeping a dog home

Pack structure is not an exact thing its ever changing and dogs are dogs and humans are humans SAr dogs and the like are kept in runs if they were so sure not to nick off runs wouldnt be necessary and dont estimate how well trained they are

ive seen a customs dog sniff out donuts

guide dogs that look up skirts when spposedly on duty also had one pee on the side of my couch totally ignoring the handler

ive seen assistance dog that did do anything it was told on the first command

and my sisters dog was atacked by an ex police dog retired thatw as in the yard with his handler saw the little dog on lead being walked and flew across the street to get him

all these dogs were trained in drive but they werent reliable.

Of my three the sheltie would never go of the front step hes a big sook the bc would probabaly stay too the foxie on the other hand wouldnt be able to resist all those sights and smells/

as for training in drive versus other methods people have had just as much success using other methods as they have drive drive is not for everyon and doesnt suit everyone hence why there are so many oter ways developed to train a dog

[Jefe's owners]

He died last year after busting THROUGH the colourbond fence and severing his jugular on the edge of it. Are you honestly saying that he had bad owners????

No, I'm saying it a trainning problem, separation anxiety as you mentioned. Whether I think they are bad owners is not relevant to this.

Installing a 10K fencing system deals with the simptom (running away), not the cause (separation anxiety, bitch in season, what ever it is).

For the 100th time, is not about being bad owners, is about training.

[wheres my rock]

you have to love the armchair experts five minutes and they know more than epople who have spent years studying canine behaviour

[Teebs]

So I can't forgive you and I hope that hole you are digging fills with water.

Dont wish that, his dog will prob come and save him anyway, he is that well trained.

[wheres my rock]

nothing wrong with having a really well trained dog and feeling proud or thinking that because a method s working relaly well then its the bee knees and should work for everyone people get caught up when they discover new things

[Teebs]

No, I'm saying it a trainning problem, separation anxiety as you mentioned. Whether I think they are bad owners is not relevant to this.

Installing a 10K fencing system deals with the simptom (running away), not the cause (separation anxiety, bitch in season, what ever it is).

For the 100th time, is not about being bad owners, is about training.

OMG

I was owned by a wonderful dog, he was 14 when PTS - the last few years of his life he had Sep Anxiety. How dare you tell me that i didnt train this dog. I have been called home from work for neighbours who have heard him screaming, only to find him STUCK in the fence - The gap was about 10cms and he tried to get through it, I have seen him GO THROUGH a glass door to get inside. I have seen the injuries he has had from trying to jump the fence that we built higher and higher and higher.

This was a dog that could be let off lead in any place and not leave your side, The gate blew open and he sat in the yard waiting for someone to come and get him.

My 18 month Stafford also has a touch of it, if we leave her alone inthe yard, without the other dog, she will do anything to get out - she has hurt herself a few times, but as of yet has not gotten out. I am now taking the other dog out of the yard so she learns that she can stay there and things will be ok - But god only knows what i will do if Atlas has to go to the vets for a few days. No way she could stay home all day alone while i am at work.

Seeing you are so great at all of this. I am sure there are a lot of DOLers who would LOVE you to come and 'train' their dogs so they dont run away.

you are an idiot and know nothing about training. You have trained ONE dog in 20 years, WOW.

dont get me wrong, i have only had 5 dogs, i had a hand in training 3 of them, and fully trained the other 2 that are mine. I am NOT an expert, but unlike you, i dont come here and talk about shit that i know nothing about!

[SpikesPuppy]

House around the corner had a car smash into the side fence..... dog got out. Thankfully, dog was picked up by people who knew him and were able to hold him until his owners returned home and were able to collect him.

Things beyond our control can and do happen. And anyone who says that their dog would never wander without any PROOF of the fact (such as a fence blowing down and returning home to find dog sitting where it was left in the morning; that would be reasonable proof to me), is spouting complete crap In My Opinion.

[SpikesPuppy]

Terrorbull- I know how you feel. My Timothy was never a perfectly trained dog, had some issues etc but as she got older she developed Sep. Anxiety as well as going senile in her last years. She got to the point where she tore the back of our house apart when we were out, if I went to the toilet in the middle of the night and left her in my bedroom she would try and bust through my door! This was a dog who had in the past, been happy to plod around the yard until we came home!

She had some issues with escaping as a young dog, inlcduing jumping 8 foot fences, but this was resolved and she had many years of being perfectly capable of staying in the yard on her own or with the other dogs.

[Teebs]

It is heart breaking - unless you have owned a dog that has been through this, you have no idea how hard it is!

My boy was THE best dog, but seeing him go through that nearly killed us all

Then i get people telling me that he has Sep Anxiety because he wasnt trained

[SpikesPuppy]

Exactly. To watch as a happy, confident dog turns into a terrified, stressed out dog and there's nothing that you can do to help them except maybe medication and keep them as safe as possible..... it really is heartbreaking.

Timothy was a terrified pup when I got her - terrified of people and fear aggressive with other dogs, but I was able to work with her and basically have her leap into the lap of any stranger within a few years, She just went completely backwards in such a short time

I really hope, Jefe's Owners, that you never, ever have to watch a dog go downhill, get old, or have a dog get stolen or intentionally let out of your yard. None of that would I wish upon ANYBODY. It all tears you up inside, and yes, it DOES make you feel like crap, it makes you feel sick. It doesn't help when people like you come in all high n mighty, professing your magical training skills and throw our care and heartache in our faces, talking about things you know nothing about.

[Teebs]

Exactly. To watch as a happy, confident dog turns into a terrified, stressed out dog and there's nothing that you can do to help them except maybe medication and keep them as safe as possible..... it really is heartbreaking.

Timothy was a terrified pup when I got her - terrified of people and fear aggressive with other dogs, but I was able to work with her and basically have her leap into the lap of any stranger within a few years, She just went completely backwards in such a short time

I really hope, Jefe's Owners, that you never, ever have to watch a dog go downhill, get old, or have a dog get stolen or intentionally let out of your yard. None of that would I wish upon ANYBODY. It all tears you up inside, and yes, it DOES make you feel like crap, it makes you feel sick. It doesn't help when people like you come in all high n mighty, professing your magical training skills and throw our care and heartache in our faces, talking about things you know nothing about.

Well said!