MaxSpots Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) my bad...... Edited October 6, 2006 by MaxSpots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefe's owners Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 What a load of manure. Do you think if my back door blows open when the garage door goes up or some numbnut leaves a gate open and the dogs get out I've allowed the behaviour? Get a grip lovey. In a way you have... you have not fixed the garage door? or you have not taught the numbnut to close the door... Just kidding. Seriusly though. Somebody mentioned drives... and I think and agree that, if the dogs runs away wandering about is because: 1.- Drives are not being satisfied by the owners (presumably prey drive as this wandering about might be hunting behaviour), and 2.- Pack drive is not strong enough to make the dog want to stay at home, and 3.- Prey drive is stronger than pack drive. Also I have to consider sex drive... very strong one. This might not be an issue on neutered dogs? Boredom is explained by point 1 above. With exception of sex drive, all points are training issues, hence why I believe if the dog goes roaming is because of poor training. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffiend42 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Seeing you've got all the answers, JO, please tell me how an owner satisfies a beagle's nose, and how you would go about training it not to follow a scent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 1.- Drives are not being satisfied by the owners (presumably prey drive as this wandering about might be hunting behaviour), and2.- Pack drive is not strong enough to make the dog want to stay at home, and 3.- Prey drive is stronger than pack drive. Also I have to consider sex drive... very strong one. This might not be an issue on neutered dogs? Boredom is explained by point 1 above. With exception of sex drive, all points are training issues, hence why I believe if the dog goes roaming is because of poor training. Just my thoughts. Oh dear - you might want another shovel... that hole is getting VERY deep :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffiend42 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Hey I've finished using mine (for the moment ) - it's all yours, JO JO you didn't read anything past p1, eh? Just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 In a way you have... you have not fixed the garage door? OK oh wise one I'll fix it closed so it never opens again. Should I leave the cars on the inside or the outside, and what should i do with the remote control? Tosser...I mean toss it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy beagle lady Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I look forward to hearing the answer on this one aswell Seeing you've got all the answers, JO, please tell me how an owner satisfies a beagle's nose, and how you would go about training it not to follow a scent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Raz - you need to lock your whole house up, you must only use a window to get in and out, but you have to make sure the window is high enough so the dogs can not jump out - all visitors must enter and leave through this windoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Good thinking TB. Or maybe I should just never leave the house again. I'm sure that will make my dogs feel loved enough never to bolt for an adventure zoomie around the local park if they get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) That could work too, but you would have to get someone to bring food in, have to work out away for them to do that without opening any doors or gates Edited October 6, 2006 by Terrorbull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Order off the net and I'll get them to drop supplies down through the chimney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 What am i going to do? I dont have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 What am i going to do? I dont have one Either do I but I'm sure I can punch a hole in the roof to try to ensure my dogs never ever go for a walkabout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Ok, you do it first, then i will follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefe's owners Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Tosser...I mean toss it? There is no need to be rude. which part of "Just kidding" don't you understand? Or appart from knowing nothing about dogs you don't know anything about English and good manners either? How do you train a beagle... never owned one. I Don't like them, but I guess you would train them same way as any other working dog: the dogs follows a scent, nothing happens, the dog follows a scent while in training he gest his reward.... so he learns that the rewards comes from you, not from following the scent... You need to find something that the dog really wants in order for this to work. I wonder how people train beagles, labs, or any other breed to do rescue or customs work, if those dogs are so untrainable or uncontrolable? It must be rocket science! Even better, black magic! The dog must get drive satisfaction from you, not from finding the source of the scent. Following the scent and finding the source is the way he will get drive satisfaction from YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Ahhh I see where you are coming from now JO All owners should have their dog highly trained in drive so they wont wander/escape (even if an accidental and highly unusual occurrence occurs in the absence of the owner) and anyone who hasn't achieved that is a bad dog owner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Or appart from knowing nothing about dogs you don't know anything about English and good manners either? It seems you've taught me well old chap. Good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefe's owners Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 (edited) All owners should have their dog highly trained in drive so they wont wander/escape (even if an accidental and highly unusual occurrence occurs in the absence of the owner) and anyone who hasn't achieved that is a bad dog owner ? Well, if you choose to have a beagle, working dog, or a high drive dog, then yes, you have to train it in drive. I wonder how many police, customs, rescue dogs run away... also, I my point is that you should train your dog... further than sits, stays, etc... and YES, the way I see it, if your dog sits on command, but yet at the first oportunity it will run away, then yes, you are a bad owner because:1.- You have failed to secure the dog 2.- You have failed to satisfy the dog drives 3.- You have failed to train you dog properly It is called responsible dog ownership... if you can't train a beagle, then don't own one! Edited October 7, 2006 by Jefe's owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 All owners should have their dog highly trained in drive so they wont wander/escape (even if an accidental and highly unusual occurrence occurs in the absence of the owner) and anyone who hasn't achieved that is a bad dog owner ? Well, if you choose to have a beagle, working dog, or a high drive dog, then yes, you have to train it in drive. I wonder how many police, customs, rescue dogs run away... also, I my point is that you should train your dog... further than sits, stays, etc... and YES, the way I see it, if your dog sits on command, but yet at the first oportunity it will run away, then yes, you are a bad owner because:1.- You have failed to secure the dog 2.- You have failed to satifsy the dog drives 3.- You have failed to train you dog propery It is called responsible dog ownership... if you can't train a beagle, then don't own one! WTF?? My god, i really cant believe you are STILL going on with this shit? How do you think those who have lost dogs feel when you say bullshit like this? have a LITTLE respect for them! My dogs would bolt the second they got the chance to. I actually do not know one dog that would not run off. What training did you do? what studies have you read? I am very interested where all this shit you are talking is coming from? Maybe you should go and spend some time with your dog, build up his drive training (oh, BTW, i dont train in drive - not a lot of people do - so i guess i am an even worse owner then most?) istead of sitting here pissing people of. ALSO - DO NOT comment on a breed you have never owned - i have helped train a beagle and know how much effort is required just to get their nose of the ground. then again, you seem to be doing a GREAT job of talking about crap you know nothing about. So why would this be an different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Logics Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Pity people have to turn nasty over dog issues, perhaps just a human trait. Dogs do what ever it takes to get them what they want...that's the nuts and bolts of dogs behavior good or bad. Depending on the breed a person chooses training is going to vary, not all dogs train the same but ALL dogs are trainable if the human involved understands the drive and instinct of their particular breed. Contrary to belief dogs are not born with problems they are learned/acquired by being reinforced by the environment and or the owner. The escape artist is a challenge and depending on the the stimuli it can be easily controlled or in some cases almost impossible past confining a dog to a very well constructed dog run. I have just taken on a rescue Border Collie who can clear 6 feet without the slightest effort....his drive sheep! Wonder why? Could be because his instinct is connected to herding nothing at all to do with training, work, food or if he likes his owner. In my situation I have a rural property, sheep and a mix of gun dogs and herding dogs. My dogs are all trained in multiple fields all are capable of jumping my fences but will only do so if ask too. I'll never know the history behind the rescue dog but one sniff of a sheep and he's gone.... Training plays a huge roll. Firstly due to high drive in this dog being related to sheep I use the sheep in his training program. This is training the dog according to his instincts. In a small yard he learns he has to STOP when I ask him to and the reward then is to herd the sheep around the yard once or twice then another STOP the first few Stops are really just brief pauses before the dog is released and then over time the STOP is held longer. Using a small pen I can place myself between the sheep and the dog hence he can not get to the sheep unless he works to my conditions. He's rewarded by getting what he wants 'sheep'when he gives me what I want 'STOP'...and so on. Once I have a good Stop in place I can then start to ask him to come to me from a Stop position again I'm very close to the dog...as he begins to understand the contract and shows willingness to comply we move into a big round yard, small paddock and so on the distance between the handler, myself, and the dog increases in stages and I over time will have a strong enough control to call him off the sheep as required. In time if he jumps the fence I should be able to call him back. But if I'm not able to supervise this dog will always have to be left in a secure run. The same applies to any breed train according to the instinct and keep an escape artist in a secure run when not supervised. We would not expect a reformed alcoholic to sit midst an array of open bottles of booze and not give way to temptation so why expect any dog not to give way to his natural drive and instinct. Within all breeds some will have high drive and others little or no drive. I have one little Border Collie bitch and show her sheep and she gives me a look that says "You want them you go get them - smelly dirty things, I'm too beautiful to go messing up my fur." Great little obedience dog who can strut her stuff on manicured arena's but not prone to running a muck in the paddock. I used sheep as an example as most people would understand the drive related issue. Beagles would be scent, sight hounds are caught by the slightest movement far in the distance, the good old Labrador just think 'food' and so on. Hope this has added some constructive input to the original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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