Sparty Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Hi just a quick question, if an injury occurs in training where a dog is injured (caused by another dog) and requires vet attention how would this be covered? I was under the impression as a club event it would be club but apparently not?? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 not sure but i would speak to the vca if its a club that is affiliated with them they would be able to give you the information ask for the rules and regulations committee person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 In that respect, I think it boils down to each individual owner being responsible for their own dogs. If the injury occured due to negligence by the club, then that may be a different story. (Extreme example: Instructor advises known aggressive dog to be shoved right into the middle of a tight group of dogs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsdog Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Club insurance covers people - if you are injured. Dog/dog agression then you are responsible for your dog and should pay the vet bills for any dog that your dog has injured. People from our club are covered anywhere in Australia when representing our club. We have a group attending nursing homes, fetes, schools, etc. They are covered by the club insurance at all these events. However, if your dog bites another dog then you are responsible for his actions and insurance will not cover another dog's vet bills. We are also covered by insurance policy of RNSW Canine Council (Dogs NSW) and you can have a look at this on their web site. Sorry Sparty, your dog's vet bills should be paid by the owner of offending dog. Noels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Club insurance covers people - if you are injured. Dog/dog agression then you are responsible for your dog and should pay the vet bills for any dog that your dog has injured. Wouldn't it depend on the exact situation though, as to who should pay? I'm just thinking of an incident I had at a training class once, when an out of control JRT dashed off the agility course he was supposed to be doing and jumped right at my dog aggressive stafford (who was sitting a good few metres away from the other dogs, on a very short leash, wearing a "give me space" ribbon!) If that JRT had been bitten for his trouble I wouldn't have felt it was my fault, or at least certainly not only my fault. I guess all I can suggest on the original topic is to talk to the club concerned, Sparty. Probably different clubs have slightly different policies anyway, so it would pay to check. Edited September 20, 2006 by Amhailte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Wouldn't it depend on the exact situation though, as to who should pay? Hi Amhailte Good to see you and speak to you again! In regards to the above, I'm no insurance expert, but I do believe you're right. The circumstances of each individual incident would have to be taken into account and I would expect it would be the dog NOT under effective control which would be considered the offender in so far as your example situation is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I don't want to hijac this thread but just out of interest, what about a dog like my Bob who wears a 'space bandana'. The idea is that people don't let their dogs rush up to him, or approach him without asking me first. Lots of people however do just let there dogs wander all over the place at trainin, albeit on lead. If a dog gets too close and Bob feels threatened, he'll give a warning snap. What happens if it escalates and he bites the other dog before I can move him away, or the other dog attacks but it's impossible to tell who started it? Does the fact he is wearing a bandana mean that I am admitting liability that my dog could be a problem? Like the 'Beware of Dog' signs people used to put on their gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 (edited) Bloss344. I'd suggest that, like any other case, your hypothetical would be taken on its own individual merits. Wearing a bandana (or other identifying object) does not preclude you from taking steps to keep appropriate distance. IMO, the onus to be responsible for your dog (knowing your dog's aggressive tendancies) rests with you. The bandana is simply a method used to try to help you out. If the incident such as you describe was to occur, I would probably be asking questions such as "were you aware of the other handler/dog combo breaching your dog's threshold limits?" and "what did you try to do to avoid the incident occurring?" Your answers to these questions would, I expect, go towards determining extent of liability/onus. Now, if you were unable to create distance yourself and you asked the other person to move/stay away but they didn't, this would balance responsibility in the other direction (IMO). Again - I'm no insurance expert nor a legal eagle .... just the way I would see it. Edited September 20, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I've often wondered if those "space bandanas" or coats etc might function as something of an admission of liability, in the event of an indident getting ugly and "legal". Bit like signs saying "Beware of the Dog"- sort of an admission that you know your dog has issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I've often wondered if those "space bandanas" or coats etc might function as something of an admission of liability, in the event of an indident getting ugly and "legal". Bit like signs saying "Beware of the Dog"- sort of an admission that you know your dog has issues. That's an interesting thought - I never thought of that before. The "give me space" vests and ribbons are not just worn by aggressive dogs though, they are also be worn by fearful or nervous dogs (even ones who wouldn't normally bite, but just get upset or tense in the presence of other dogs). I wonder if that would make a difference? Any legal wizards here to share their advice about whether wearing a "give me space" ribbon is an admission of liability? I have to admit that my staff doesn't wear a "give me space" ribbon anymore anyway (he's a little less aggressive now - and we're also going to a different training school where the dogs are expected to show some semblance of control ). But it would be nice to know if wearing one was sensible or not. Great to see you too, Erny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 That's an interesting thought - I never thought of that before. The "give me space" vests and ribbons are not just worn by aggressive dogs though, they are also be worn by fearful or nervous dogs (even ones who wouldn't normally bite, but just get upset or tense in the presence of other dogs). I wonder if that would make a difference?Any legal wizards here to share their advice about whether wearing a "give me space" ribbon is an admission of liability? This is what I meant. Bob is not what I would call aggressive. He's happy to mind his own business and not terribly concerned about other dogs, but if a dog rushes up to him or bounces around him he will get on the defensive as he is extremely fearful. It all began at the previous dog club I went to, where several dog's approached him with dominance in mind. As Erny said, it's up to me to make sure my dog is controlled and has his space, but I spend all my time at the club, making sure this is the case. Some people allow their dogs to pull at the length of the lead and the dogs sniff and check out every dog that's within range. Ok, that's normal dog behaviour, but during the time between the 2 lessons I have, I virtually have to keep moving further and further away from the clubroom to keep my boy happy with his space, because other people don't respect it. The other side of the coin are the people who give us dirty looks deciding that because Bob wears a bandana he is an aggressive dog, not a timid dog. Geez, this dog hides under the dining room table if a blow fly buzzes him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 I am interesting to hear, if you would ask the dog's owner to pay vet fees of a tooth wound (not severe ie eye)? I have been pondering since seeing this thread. I think of a puncture wound is an accepted risk we all take when out and about with our dogs, never more so when in a large group situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparty Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 it would depend on the situation, but if your dog is running a course and another dog charges in rolls him and you end up with severe bruising and a toothmark what would you do? If my dog had fallen, run into something or a general misshap np but this happened because of an uncontrolled dog in not saying it was a vicious attack or even intentional but costs have been incured. and i was wondering what the normal process would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 That's a tricky one... IMHO if you were running the only available course (like we do at our club) then all dogs should be on leash and under control, with the exception of the dog on course. If you're doing training in sections (not whole courses) like I've seen them do at Ballarat then chances are there will be more than one dog off lead at the time. If it was the former then the owner should've had their dog on lead and under control. If it was the latter then it gets a bit cloudy on responsibility (club, owner of offending dog or just one of those risks you take ). I would personally approach the owner of the offending dog and ask that they contribute to the bill. If that is not effective then I would be bringing up with the powers at be at the club. Especially if there is any doubt the owner of the dog didn't have the dog under effective control. It is only a relatively minor injury (not to downplay it at all ) but it could've been far worse, whether it be "dog induced" or something like a joint injury from being knocked off balance at the wrong time while on course Hope your dog is okay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Dogs must be under effective control at all times that is simple dog rules.If your dog is offlead then its up to you to make sure you have control same as offleash dog parks,walking the streets ,obedience,trialling etc etc.It isnt the clubs doing unless they contributed. This without the exact facts simply sounds like & an owner to owner thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparty Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 pics are about week after event so 6 days of healing he was hit side on (t-boned) as he went over a flyball jump which also caused severe bruising up his leg and hip as it flipped him and the jump end over end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 pics are about week after event so 6 days of healing he was hit side on (t-boned) as he went over a flyball jump which also caused severe bruising up his leg and hip as it flipped him and the jump end over end. Poor boy, it looks like a nasty bite. :D If your dog was under effective control and the other dog was not, then personally I'd put most (or all of the blame) on the other owner. The only exception being if the other owner had been directed to take their dog offleash by an obedience instructor. Perhaps then, the club should share some of the blame. I'm just thinking that because most dog owners go to obedience class to learn to control their dog, i.e they obviously can't control their dog 100% yet. So I think it is the responsibility of a good instructor to help the owner judge whether it is a good idea to work offleash yet or not, since the owner might not have the experience or knowledge to make that call themself. After seeing several nasty incidents at dog school (some involving my own dog), I am a great believer in not having more than one or two dogs offleash at obedience class at any one time - not unless the class is very advanced. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Poor bubba boy that sounds painful :D.. Jen please give him a gentle hug from me . If your dog was under effective control and the other dog was not, then personally I'd put most (or all of the blame) on the other owner. Thats what i would be thinking aswell, people need to take resposibility for their dogs and have them under effective control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FATDOG Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I know this does not help in recouping your costs but it may make some people sit up and take notice. Extract From bylaws of your club. 44.4 After an unprovoked attack resulting in injury to another person or dog, the offending dog must be muzzled at all times while in attendance at any Club function. The Problem Dog Panel may withdraw this requirement after corrective action has been taken and it has been proven that muzzling is unneccessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Ohh ouch that looks extremely painful! Did the dog do it with malicious intent? If it did i would be kicking up a major fuss to get the dog to wear a muzzle and not be allowed off lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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