Help Teaching 'stand'

[Flaves]

Barker has an issue, or rather i have an issue teaching him stand.

Because he is still a little head shy (from before me but he is heaps better than he was), i can say the command and put my hand under his ribs and put him in the stand but he will try and sit because he is freaked/uncomfortable.

Micthi knows it but prefers not to do it cause she is a brat, if i say it i make her do it.

I asked at training, and was told what i was doing was right.

i also tried how i taught my other dogs, taking a fake step forward to get him to rise but he goes forward and sit again.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Purpley]

I was having a prob with Bronson sitting on the stand aswell.

Best thing I did (someone here suggested it) was practise at home by looping a lead under his belly, so that he couldn't sit. Its a little awkward at the start, but once you get coordinated I found it helped heaps.

Eventually he just thought the lead was there and didn't sit on the stand command.

[Ons]

thanks for that tip, I will try it. Tilly could do everything at training except stand because I had taught her to sit everytime we stopped before we went to training!!!!!!

[cavNrott]

.

Edited May 19, 2009 by cavNrott

[whatevah]

When I take puppy's for puppy school it is a common problem that they don't want to stand, often they have been so reinforced for sitting thats what they want to do, I just use a food lure, and feed them when they stand, and give multiple treats, also teaching a hand target is useful too. You can also teach a kickback stand. Have the dog in a sit and move toward them and when they move their bum up in the air click and treat.

[TangerineDream]

You can also use your foot by swivelling and putting your heel on the ground under the dog with your toe up (if clearance ground to belly is great enough) so that as they go to sit they prod themselves beck up into a stand...can work well if the dog is hand shy.. mind you it takes a bit of co-ordination to do this without falling in a heap and looking like a dork

[shoemonster]

Wait til they have learnt stand and you can't get them to sit anymore! hehe

Some good advice here

Edited September 17, 2006 by shoemonster

[Flaves]

I tried to quote but my computer at home is stupid.... Not the user lol

With the hand shy stuff he is inconsistent with it. Soome days and in some instances he will be fine, in others not so god. We can do the same thing 10 times and 7 of the times he will be fine and the other 3 he will panic. But that is another issue i am working on. he comes to us voluntarily for affection and attention, we have never had to make him do it. He also will come as soon as he hears my voice, so i KNOW he wants to do what i say, maybe he doesn't understand? Is that possible even though i say stand and put him in position?

CNR and TD, i will try both of those, especially the foot thing. I think it would help with the hand shy issues.

I have tried the food lure, and he sit...cause he usually does for food.

The move forward he drags himself in a sit.

CNR, lift him between his ribs and his willy?

I use a hand signal for sit an upside down hand going up, he sees that and does it without the word 80% of the time !!!!!, he does the drop one too i will try and implement a stand signal and see if that helps also.

Thanks for allyour help. It is appreciated.

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 19, 2009 by cavNrott

[Jejuna]

I've been trying this too. My command is "watching" so he can watch my hand for a treat & hopefully will stand as he should when showing. But he sits (which I never taught him). My SIL also shows & she told me to use my foot to lift him. This worked about 5 times & now when I move my foot he jumps out of the way, puts his front legs down & barks at me like it's a game. . I want him to watch my hand without me bending down to physically lift his butt in the air. And how can I get him to not play while doing this.

[dasha]

When I had to teach my dog to stand I had to hold the food right in front of his nose and say Stand to him. He would lick the food at first and then when he got frustrated he would stand and then the food would be released. To give him the idea to stand, I would hold the food there for him (with my right hand) and if he did nothing I would just reach down with my left hand (behind his line of sight) and just niggle him under his left flank (just enough that it bothered him) and he would stand to get away from my finger and as soon as his butt came up the food was released for him to eat. It took a while but he did get it.

He didn't like my hands going near him as he was a bit handshy too and as I always used my right hand to feed him, his command ended up just being me moving my right hand across in his direction with my palm open and it wasn't so strong for him.

Good luck!!

[Rom]

Also don't forget that your dog is probably operating on foot cues ie when you come to a halt you finish by bringing your left foot up to your right. So if your dog is used to this foot cue to indicate a sit when you halt, he may be confused.

Two different things we found helpful:

1. When your about to halt to give a stand signal, delay bringing your left foot up to halt until after you've given the stand signal. (If you intend trialling, you will have to work towards the hand signal and the left foot coming up at the same time though cuz in the ring the judge might see it as a double command and you'll lose points.

or:

2. Swap the foot that you finish on if your about to do a halt for a stand ie, bring your right foot up to your left to halt instead.

Also helps the dog understand if at the instant that his butt starts moving towards the ground you immediately take another step forward so that he moves forward with you instead of being able to complete the sit.

If you use the belly strap be sure not to jerk it around....just use it to support the weight of his back end if it looks like his butt might be heading towards the ground.

Another tip for some dogs....some are sensitive in the flank/belly area and don't take the touch there well under these circumstances. I've found that sometimes it helps if instead of touching the flank/belly to support the weight to prevent the sit you actually place your hand on the stifle joint and give a slight backwards pressure. This prevents the dog from bending its 'knee' in order to sit. Be careful to use only slight pressure though cuz sometimes you can get a reflex action where the dog kicks its leg out behind.

[dogdude]

Hi Kristie

In my experience this is one of the most common problems when educating a green dog. I have used all methods as an instructor and found that different methods for the various size, and temperaments, of the dogs are required. A large robust dog can be taught the "hand under the belly" method, but many dogs cant stand this and take exception to it. A lot of green handlers make the mistake of lifting the dog after it has sat, when the help was needed before they actually sat. This often causes the cringing dog look and can slow down the learning of a soft dog. I have seen the foot method used to good effect with experienced handlers, but again, this can be very awkward for small dogs and inexperienced handlers. I originally used that method on my very first dog and had problems with my dog sitting wide as a result. (probably due to my inexperience at the time).

I found "Suzy Moles" method very effective with small dogs. You form a lasso with the handle of your lead and arrange it around the rear of his torso and hold the middle of the lead like a handbag! Using this method stops you bending over the top of the dog which is another advantage as it disconnects you from the help. Dogs learn quicker with less stress. I found it better to concentrate on this execise seperately to heeling patterns, using staight lines only, with quick stands in succession.

Always make sure that you are very gentle with your help when he tries to sit. I found a little positive reinforcement helps until he understands the exercise. They often confuse the drop and stand commands early on because the footwork is very simular, so take some time proofing the stand by alternating with the down. It is important to not show your frustration while he is learning a new exercise, which can be difficult for new handlers at obedience clubs.

Edited September 18, 2006 by dogdude

[Rom]

Good post Dogdude!

[Flaves]

THankyou all so much.

I after reading this i HAVE been making mistakes.

Lifting him when he is already sitting instead of catching him before his butt hts the ground.

I will try from drop to stand so he does not confuse the too.

i knew it couldn't be him that was slow it had to be me!!!!!!

Poor love.

I probably also made the mistake of lifting him form the middle of his tummy instead of to the side closer to his flank. That may be why he doesn't like my hands there, i was squishing bits that should be squish free! lol

[Zhara]

You can also use your foot by swivelling and putting your heel on the ground under the dog with your toe up (if clearance ground to belly is great enough) so that as they go to sit they prod themselves beck up into a stand...can work well if the dog is hand shy.. mind you it takes a bit of co-ordination to do this without falling in a heap and looking like a dork :D

Interesting!

I have used a similar technique, except that when you are starting to give the command "Staaand", with a hand signal, you land on your left foot, bend your right leg behind your left leg and under the dog's belly. (Need to know how low the belly is, the dog will be a bit confused at first, reinforce positively, and continue on with your work).

It is gentle, definately placing your heel as an obstacle only, and it works quickly. Every now and again, the dog gets a bit slack and you do it again to remind them.

I would also suggest, that most people that have trouble with position training is that they stop to soon. You need to take a couple of slowing paces to cue the dog that something is about to happen and they focus back to you. This principle works for turns as well as position changes.

Zhara