Clicker Training & Tricks

[MrsD]

After discovering canine freestyle a few days ago I have started having some fun with Jonty & teaching him a couple of things. I bought a clicker on Monday & so far have taught him the bow

& this morning I have been getting him to walk backwards

In the first one he is looking at my leg as I moved it towards him to encourage him to go back (hard to hold a camera steady, a clicker & a toy & give him a hand signal at the same time ), but the second one he did it on the verbal cue. He's certainly not perfect on either of them yet, but I think he's doing pretty well for only starting on Monday afternoon .

My biggest problem is that he is totally unmotivated by food. I started off by doing the clicker association thing ie click - treat - click - treat but he is so uninterested in food that half the time I would click & he would sniff the food & turn his head away & lie down (yes, Im using something very palatable, cheese). So I just started teaching the bow using a toy (its a piece of old soft material thats been knotted into an octopus shape), clicked & rewarded with a tug session with the toy. Is this right? Ive never used a clicker before, I often use verbal cues in my training & have found it fairly easy to get the exact moment to click correct. I find the hardest thing is to motivate him if he doesnt feel like playing - if he's in a playful mood then that's alot easier, but if he's feeling tired or just woken from a sleep its a bit harder. If he was food motivated I think it would be alot easier!

Does anyone else use a toy rather than food with clicker training?

ETA - yes I know that the pics of him walking backwards look no different than if I had taken pics of him walking forward but you'll just have to trust me on that one as my video camera is broken right now & I can only use my camera :p

Edited September 13, 2006 by MrsD

[shoemonster]

Mine are completely food motivated, but sounds like you are doing the right thing with the toy, as long as the click is at the right time and the tug comes just after

Well done!!!! Very cute bow!!!

[Sayreovi]

The click means reward, it doesnt matter what the reward is as long as the dog gets it after every click.

Well done, i love the bow trick photo

ETA: I do know someone who used to use a clicker with a toy, worked well and the dog is doing what it is supposed to be doing though maybe faster then the food rewarded dogs.

Edited September 13, 2006 by tollersowned

[whatevah]

I use both, when I taught weaving, I used a yes word and then threw the toy. I usually use "yes" for toy and the clicker for food, or if I don't have a clicker I use the "yes" word. But you can use either. Go to http://www.k9events.com for info on clicker, also check out my web page.

[MrsD]

Thanx guys, no doubt I will have plenty more questions about specific tricks as I go along .

My only prolem is that I can't throw the toy cos if I do it then becomes a game to get it back cos he dances just out of reach with it so for the time being Im just playing tug with it (which he loves).

As I said, I find the timing pretty easy as Im used to marking only using my voice (I actually started the bow on Monday morning using the voice & then switched to the clicker after I bought it in the afternoon when I thought it was going to be easier ).

EFS

Edited September 13, 2006 by MrsD

[lab and poodle]

I think your timing must be very good, you must have an innate sense of your dog's needs to be doing so well.

I have a poodle, who isn't a foodie by any stretch of the imagination. If I put her tea down and asked her to drop, she would but would then try and get me to pick her up and have a cuddle first. So I gathered that she likes cuddles. So I just have to make sure that the nighbours aren't watching before I do any training.

Some practicals:IMHO with classes, about 90% of food troubles are

If you are grazing, it might be time to stop. My vet says it aint so hot for the dogs in any case. Sometimes (of course I don't have trouble with this!) we have a tendency to overfeed our dogs. The old rib feel test is not a bad one. I sometimes train her before breakfast. Thats as far as I go with meal manipulation .

My top total winner food treats are 1) herb sausages

2) Dried Lamb

3) Dried Fish

I use about 5 or 6 others too.

If you PM me, I will give you the email address for lamb and fish

When I have time, I will post a topic on simple palatability testing for your dog . Did you know some labs can actually distinguish between the meal and the plates?

[MrsD]

L&P, yes, my timing is pretty good, been working with dogs for a fair while now, so plenty of practice.

He definitely isnt overfed & is just not food motivated - last night at training club he turned his nose up at diced roast chicken, don't think you can get much more palatable than that . He doesnt seem to like dried anything - the only dried thing I have ever seen him touch apart from his dry food in his bowl is some dried roo heart that KK had at lurecoursing one day. He also doesnt like eating when anyone else is around - I have to feed him outside on the verandah by himself.

Interesting - this morning I put him outside on the verandah while the kids were getting ready for school (as I do every morning, otherwise the kids end up playing with him & not getting ready) & went to say goodbye & give him a pat just before we left. Quick pat & cuddle then I put him back onto the verandah where he proceeded to bark at me whilst madly bowing & backing up all over the place trying to get my attention .

[shoemonster]

It's so funny when they start offering tricks to you!

I am always telling OH off as he will reward them for offering though, grrr!!!

[Rusky]

Fantastic Mrs D and a lovely dog too.

So long as the dog gets the reinforcers and the timing is right, food, pat, verbal, toy whatever with the clicker combination it will work well. Not all dogs respond to food so you have to find what works for you.

My grandfurbaby is responding brilliantly to the clicker I am impressed with the kids for giving it a go. We have all basics with 9 week baby including touching and targeting. Love that clicker

I think you must be doing a perfect timing job.

[MrsD]

It's so funny when they start offering tricks to you!

I am always telling OH off as he will reward them for offering though, grrr!!!

Ohhhh, am I not supposed to be doing that? :D

Rusky, thanx, I havent done targetting or touching yet, I think I've started at the top of the heap & am working my way back down - not always the eaiest way to do it .

He's started turning around after he takes one step backwards if he's out in the open, so I will have to put him back in the hallway again to get him to go straight & do lots & lots more practice.

I also started teaching him to "shake hands" this morning, only took about 3 tries & he is now doing it (although he's using the paw on the same side as Im using my hand ie my right hand, his left paw, so I might change the command to "paw" or something), I will try to get a pic later & post it (thankfully hubby is home, trying to take a pic of him shaking hands with me would be almost impossible, not enough hands ) .

One other question I wanted to ask was if I want him to stay in the bow position longer, do I just hold off clicking until he's held it for a few seconds? He's starting to hold himself down there longer & I want to encourage him to keep the position, so do I just click a little bit later each time & get him to extend it? (hope that makes sense)

[wheres my rock]

try th richard curtis way for backing set up a chute two boards in av a narrow one the bring the dog in the v and satnd in front step back a few paces the dog will want to get to you and will back out click as hes baccking that way you get backing and that cooltrick of backing away as you back away

[Rusky]

One other question I wanted to ask was if I want him to stay in the bow position longer, do I just hold off clicking until he's held it for a few seconds?

yes like any training perfect it to stay 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 then 5 seconds extending when each stage is reached. Set your dog up to win so make it easy baby steps.

wheres my rock

I like your idea

[MrsD]

Where's my rock, yeah I saw that on his site the other day, Ive just been doing it in the hallway, but that might be a good idea to try.

Rusky thanx

OK here's my next pic, this one is of him shaking hands, he seems to change paws ie doesnt use the same one all the time. Im not quite sure what to do about that, for now Im just happy that he's doing it. Can't quite believe how smart he is - he picks things up very very quickly! He's looking at my other hand as I have the clicker & toy in it :D .

[m-j]

Hi

Well done Mrs D. He is soooooooo cute especially in the bow photo.

cheers

M-J

[Jejuna]

He's a beautiful dog. Well done on the training. How old is he now?

[shoemonster]

lol you can reward him for offering while he is still learning, but once the bahaviour is pretty solid don't reward unless you have asked for the behaviour or he will do it all the time!

With shaking hands, once he knows what the behviour is, I would only click if he gives you the hand you ask for

I have my 2 so they will wave with whichever hand I use, it's very cute!

It took them a little while, and they would offer the wrong paw alot but I would just wait and repeat the command, and as soon as they gave me the correct one click

Definitely teach targetting, it is so helpful, especially when doing leg weaves and things like that

[MrsD]

Thanx M-J & Jejuna, I think he's pretty cute too, but then Im biased . He's just turned 5 months, so still very young!

Shoey, thanx for the advice I will wait til he's pretty good at it & then become more particular about which paw. It's just like training anything else really isn't it, as Rusky said, just start to extend the time etc. Same as sit at heel, to start with you don't mind if he's a little crooked, then as he progresses & gets older you start to ask for a straighter faster sit. So first you ask for a paw (or even an attempt at lifting a paw), then when he gets better, you start asking for a specific paw - easy! :D But here's a question - I can see that you could use the trick in many situations not just shaking hands like Im doing now, so do you ask for the paw on the same side that you are signalling ie their right, your left, or do you ask for the paw on the other side ie as if you are shaking hands, their right, your right - or do you teach both & use a different command or signal? Now I think Im confusing even myself .

I'll have to look up targetting as Im not really sure what it is or entails apart from the dog touching something.

[shoemonster]

This is a really good site, and have given you the page for targetting

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Leve...TL23Target.html

You have exactly the right idea, and with the which hand to cue for which paw, depends which end result you want! lol

I didn't teach shake but went straight to wave, so I used the hand on the side of the paw I wanted, but maybe you could use opposite hand to paw for shake, and then teach same hand to paw for wave?

[MrsD]

This is a really good site, and have given you the page for targetting

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Leve...TL23Target.html

You have exactly the right idea, and with the which hand to cue for which paw, depends which end result you want! lol

I didn't teach shake but went straight to wave, so I used the hand on the side of the paw I wanted, but maybe you could use opposite hand to paw for shake, and then teach same hand to paw for wave?

Thanx shoey, that site looks interesting . I'll sort something out with the paws, will just have to think about it for a bit.

I guess the best indication of the dog really understanding what you are asking, is when the dog does the action required as soon as you have given the command & without the clicker or the toy as motivator. He did exactly that his afternoon & looked sooooooo pleased with himself afterwards :p :rofl: .

[shoemonster]

Well done!