Raw Natural Diet V's Dry Dog Food

[Stitch]

I have come across a school of thought today pushed by a certain 'dog behaviourist' business that feeding raw meat (minced chicken frames not total muscle meat) balanced with vegs, raw meaty bones, eggs, fish, etc.etc. is wrong!!! Feeding raw meat is wrong! Too much protein apparently! Gives the dog too much energy so they say! Makes problem dogs worse!!! They don't even bother listening to the explanation of the whole diet fed, no, just charge in bagging a raw diet!

They prefer and push a diet of a certain premium dry dog food!!

Personally I do not agree, I currently feed all natural but I have had success on other methods of feeding and have learned to respect peoples right to do what they think best for their dog but these 'behaviourists' are intollerant to any other method other than their own and they push it to all their customers and will not listen to any other views.

I have been in the dog world for long enough that I have seen and heard lots and lots of different methods of feeding and training, all supposedly the 'correct' way to do things. It never ceases to amaze me how rude some of these intollerant so called 'experts' can be when inflicting their ideas on others and how much they do not know!! I wonder where they got their qualifications from?? They could do with some people skills!!! :

[KitKat]

All that matters is how well the dog goes on the food, raw/cooked/dried/tinned/whatever.

Unfortunately there are some that will push their point of view no matter what the subject matter is - and won't 'hear' anything other then their point of view.

[Stitch]

So right - and have you noticed that the rude ones are usually the ones that are the 'instant experts' with a very narrow point of view and little personal experience.

[Jed]

It annoys me too when behaviourists and vets push one food (usually dry food they sell, surprise, surprise!!) very heavily and to the exclusion of all else. What really ticks me off is that they tell people not to feed raw, as you say, without giving any valid reasons.

Because they are in a position of authority, people tend to listen to them whether they have any knowledge of the subject of food or not!!

My vet recommends dry food, because she says it is balanced, and it is easy for people to feed. And they wont be feeding the dog an unbalanced diet which will be detrimental to it. I can understand that. She doesn't know a lot about raw food, but doesn't bag it either. If someone feeds it, and is happy, and the dogs are well, she is happy.

I have often suggested to my puppy buyers they go for a premium dry food, because it is obvious on talking to them, that raw is "too hard". I think half the problem with raw food is that it is all made too complicated for some. Like preparing a 10 course dinner for royalty. It isn't that hard.

Off my soapbox now, and back into the kennel!!

[Sagittarian]

Aw Jed... don't go back in the kennel - unless of course TBCSITW is in there (Evie sends her love and great desire).

Anyway, back on track. I did the whole raw feeding thing for two years and it just didn't suit my dogs as much as a premium dry - with extras - did. However, I know many people who find it is perfect for them, and always suggest people find the best balance depending upon their own lifestyle, doggies needs, and so forth.

Nobody should be pushing one thing over another. I'll happily talk about what has worked for us and our dogs... as well as what we've seen work for others.

Pity if people use their position to push a product.

Sags.

[KitKat]

I to tried raw/barf and it didn't suit my dog...I am also paid by a kibble company to promote their product a couple of times a month - however it doesn't stop me offering up all options (other brands and of differing budget levels if needs be) that will suit the dog/cat in general - in or out of uniform. I will also offer up barf/raw as an option but do suggest they read Dr Billinghursts book before starting. I prefer getting a fair view of things and so i offer the same to others.

I'd also rather be known/remembered as the helpful person from such and such company then the pushy so and so from That company etc Mind you people tend to remember Bronx more so then me

[Australdi]

as theynsay...the proof is in the pudding!!!!

If you have a dog that has high energy, good immune system, glossy coat & good weight....what srgument is there!????

I have my personal beliefs & choices...but I have also seen dogs that are fed diffferent diets that compare to my own.....so who am I to judge! as long as the dog is healthy.....I'm happy!! & what someone spends to achieve that...well, that's their issue!

hahahhaa

Aus

[SkyesongTollrz]

Within my own business I will not promote any processed dog foods, and if asked, I will always recommend a raw food diet (with documentation, studies and articles to go with it). I'm one of those people that would love if dogs were no longer fed processed foods, and they all ate a natural, raw, balanced diet.

But I'm also a realist and know that it's not likely to happen within my lifetime.

I deal with dogs all day everyday, and the one thing I do say to my clients is "ask your vet/behaviourist/etc how much they make each time they sell you a bag of Xxxxxxxx dog food". It's not that I'm trying to turn my clients away from whatever dog food may be suggested, but that I do get them to ask their vet how much of a commission they make on that food and then get them to make their own decisions and to do their own research.

[Jed]

Sags. the BCSITW has been sooooooo naughty lately, once I find your address, he will be in your letterbox one morning in a plain brown wrapper!!

I feed my dogs raw, but if I'm home late, they have dry. I think raw is better, but I'm not about to push it onto someone who likes dry.

However, it really really really ticks me off when I send a puppy home with a diet sheet, the new owners feed what's on the diet sheet with no problems - UNTIL - they visit their friendly vet - who immediately flogs them the super size bag of premium dog food he is pushing this month, at huge expense, and basically convinces them that unless they feed this food, the pup will probably fall down dead at their feet without delay!! And also tells them I am a baaaaaaaaad breeder for recommending that raw rubbish!! It is this latter bit which makes me see red!! And smoke to emit from my ears!!

I used to let it pass. No longer. Now I ring the vet up and give him the in-terror-gation as to why he is recommending the dry food he sells, and what is his basis for recommending it, and why it is better than fresh?

Most of the little tossers don't flamin well know, and sprout the spiel the dog food rep gave them. Boy, do they get an earful.

Then I ring up the pup's owner, and tell them the vet sold them the food because he makes a profit out of it, and he couldn't give me one good reason why it was better, but - the food is their choice. I also ask them if the vet found ANY fault with their pup - either condition or health wise. The answer is always "no". I then ask them why they would want to change the food.

They can believe someone who spent a lot of time breeding their lovely pup, and who makes NO profit from what they feed him, or they can believe someone who is making a profit from their purchases, never reared a puppy in their life, keeps 1 cross bred dog, and has done NO research into dog food, apart from receiving information from the rep who sold him the dog food. And whose training is to do with health not nutrition.

I used to cop it, but no more!!

[Stitch]

Aw Jed, I wish I had been able to express myself as well as you just did when I had the 'conversation' with the so called 'expert'.

I am still fuming over the things that he said!!! Deep breathing!!!

I have heard it all before, it is as you say the basic blurb that the premium food reps push designed especially to push their own product and make more money for them!

[Red Mal]

Well I too feed raw and I too heard this same argument a while back about meat containing too much protien and givng too much energy. I openly asked this person how can this be justifiable when many dry food brands are filling with chemicals/preservatives etc that makes some dogs hyperactive ???

I don't push one way or the other. I too have limited time some days and feed a bowl of dry, but I personally see the difference in my dogs and what comes out of them which proves to me that raw is best.

I think for anyone to be able to preach on the matter, they should first be confident in their own research about the subject.

[poodlefan]

The answer to this question is quite simple. Do your homework and be realistic about how much effort you can put into your dogs diet.

I'm a dyed in the wool BARFer. However, I'd rather see premium kibble and some RMBs fed over some of the half ar$sed home prepared diets some people try to suggest are balanced.

I think its possible to raise a happy healthy dog on a variety of diets. I just happen to think raw is best.

[Stitch]

And I agree with your comments Poodlefan - I have a container of a premium brand dog food just in case but you can certainly see the difference in the poo dept. when you feed natural and thats got to be a good thing!

[Jed]

Hope you will try it Stitch! Took a while for me to get annoyed enough.

Agree with you Poodlefan - people are better feeding a quality dry food than some diet a friend of a friend of an uncle of a mate who had a showdog once!! Which is supposed to be "barf" - containing 50% rice and/or pasta. There are lots of dogs looking great on all sorts of things - which is the bottom line. You even hear of dogs reaching 15 years on Pal.

If people buy a pup, and are struggling feeding raw food - and some are - I suggest one of the IMO "better" dry foods.

My point of view is why bother taking raw food, processing it, turning it into pellets and then feeding it? You can't see what is in it - and whilst most are terrific, some are not. It's just a personal thing. I never fed my horses pellets either, or any processed food, on the same basis.

[ravensmyst00]

I had my boy on Barf for a while - unfortunately it kept him way too lean - not something you really want for a bullmastiff. I also found that by feeding him completely raw his energy levels were way down.

Now I do a mix of both raw and kibble.

Its up to you as to what you feed your dog. Do your research and try things out - trial and error are the best ways to learn.

[Fastgals]

The statement about raw diets containing too much protein is simply incorrect. Raw meat is largely water - off the top of my head I think average protein content is around 17-18%. There are premium dry foods with higher levels of protein. I would think the only time a dog may show increased activity levels once on a raw diet would be if the dog had been previously fed cheap cr*p kibble that was not giving proper dietary requirements, or had too high a grain content for that particular dog.

[Stitch]

Yes, yes, yes, Fastgals!!!

[FreyaJade]

When I first got my girls, my vet told me to feed them strictly Science Diet (which they conveniently sold) & nothing else. After a while my rotty x starts to gag & vomit this dry food every dinner time. Fine with any other food. So I told the vet, Umm my dog vomits & gags eating her dinner. But it only happens with Science Diet.

Oh she's OK...she's just eating it too quickly. Maybe cause it's ...ahem...sh!T?

2 months later the vet's change their supplier to...ummm I think it was ProPlan or something. Well guess who was trying to get me off Science Diet & onto their new brand. pmsl

By this stage I had swapped to barf. So I told her...I'm going natural now, raw. 'Oh but is she still getting dry food..this one is the best.'

Best in your bank account Mrs Vet!

Edited September 13, 2006 by FreyaJade

[Stitch]

What is really dangerous and unethical is what is implied - the guilt factor ie. if you don't feed this food you are neglecting your dog!!

Trouble is unsuspecting pet owners just accept this product pushing as being helpful advice given without bias, which it isn't!

I was surprised when an orthopaedic vet. once said to me that before the proliferation of dried dog/cat food vets used to see some cases of rickets. Now rickets is extremely rare but they now see many cases of overnutrition. A refreshing moment of honesty!

[nickyp]

I've had my dogs on both raw and processed diets and, fortunately for me, they seem to generally do OK regardless of what they eat. One of them gets smelly on processed food, but is otherwise healthy. At the moment we're doing a mostly raw diet with leftovers (my toddler's a fussy eater and I can't bear to just throw all the food he leaves out) and it's all looking good. They'll go back onto a processed diet for a while when the second baby arrives next year because my OH will be doing the feeding and he's not good at remembering how much of what, when.

I try to avoid discussing diet with our vets. They sell a number of different kibbles and one vet particularly pushes Hills and ia appalled that I feed my dogs raw. My cats are on Hills because I saw her when one of them was ill and gave in to her insistence that it would settle his stomach. What I learned was that this particular cat, who is starting to age a bit, just can't handle change in his diet. He either throws up or has diahorrea (sp?) if there's any variation. So the cats have stayed on the Hills since then simply to save him the discomfort and me the mess of getting him used to something else.

Discussions of diet are also to be avoided around family. SIL and my oldest brother feed a mostly raw diet, with one exception - they feed cooked bones. My SIL's dad is a retired vet and apparently he never saw an obstruction from a cooked bone in practice but saw lots from raw bones. One of my sisters has taken this as gospel and now feeds her dog the carcass from their roast chicken. My other brother feeds his dog only on cheap canned food and insists it's fine. The skin on poor old Boof's tummy is bright red and he scratches constantly, which could be due to any number of causes but the diet can't be helping. Any discussion about feeding just ends up in a fight about raw vs processed, cooked vs raw bones ... In the end we just have to agree to disagree and accept that each of us is doing what we feel is best for our animals.