3 Year Vaccines

[mjk05]

I am a doctor. But, as you implied earlier, that doesn't make me an expert on veterinary matters. Fortunately it does give me some grounding in basic biological science, which makes some of the misinformation I read on the net hard to take.

ETA: if people are interested in factual info on vaccination protocols, titre testing and the relative risks of various diseases for unvaccinated dogs, I'd suggest contacting your local vet school. I've found that a very useful source of information about many vet issues, and their libraries contain some valuable reference souces

Edited September 13, 2006 by mjk05

[Miranda]

Thanks for the clarification mjk05

To return to the original topic I have been told by a number of vets that the reason for annual boosters has nothing to do with dogs' immunity, apparently the drug companies who manufacture the vaccines will only guarantee the efficacy of their products for one year. Therefore vets really have no choice but to recommend annual vaccination. Now I have absolutely no time for conspiracy theories, but even the most gullible person would have to admit that annual vaccinations mean massive profits for the drug companies when you consider that a large proportion of dogs in the western world are vaccinated every year. And why would vets be keen to press for a longer guarantee when the cost of the yearly vaccination also adds valuable revenue to their practices and vaccinating a dog means very little work in a very short time. Also please be aware that the profit on vaccines is enormous, annual vaccinations add many thousands of dollars to veterinarians' bank accounts.

I definitely appreciate mjk's points and I certainly bow to his/her far greater knowledge of titre testing, but nothing will ever convince me that vaccinating a dog every year is necessary. I can appreciate that a child vaccinated for a disease which is uncommon in Australia may have low levels of immunity in their mid twenties, but I cannot accept that a dog vaccinated against a disease which is reasonably widespread throughout the country is likely to be lacking immunity just one year following the vaccination. Studies conducted in the U.S. have shown that the vast majority of dogs tested had high levels of antibodies seven years after their initial vaccinations and some veterinarians are conceding that these dogs may be protected for life.

I'm a big believer in living a healthy life, exercising and eating healthy food and I try to ensure that my dogs do the same. All these things can help to maintain a healthy immune system and although I certainly believe in vaccination I really think that vaccinating every year or even every three years is going too far. Some people vaccinate with a C7, which includes additional protection (totally unnecessary IMO) against leptospirosis and corona virus, give annual heartworm injections and administer monthly tablets to treat a variety of intestinal worms, mites, fleas and ticks which their dog may or may not have. All these things must have a huge impact on the immune system of the dog and may (note that i say MAY) contribute to the upsurge in canine auto-immune disease that we have been seeing in recent years. At this point I would like to say that I do not agree with giving homeopathic nosodes in place of conventional vaccines, but some people do this and that is their prerogative.

Anyway these are my thoughts on the subject, I know that a lot of DOLers will disagree, but debate is healthy and informative.

Very interesting discussion BTW, any more participants?

[Alprazolam]

I now follow this as per document below, and one of my dogs by the 2nd year lost all his allergies then I had to go away and he had to have his shots to get boarded the allergies came back with a vengenance.

My vet says he will not do hearworm injections as in the states they are being linked to cancer at the site of injection.

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NEW VACCINATION PROTOCOLS by Dr Jean Dodd (America)

I would like to make you aware that all 27 Veterinary Schools in Nth America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats.

Some of this information will present an ethical and economic challenge to Vets and there will be sceptics. Some organizations have come up with a political compromise suggesting vaccination every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY.

Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months.

If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity which is good for the life of the pet.

If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the anti bodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect.

The titer is not boosted nor are more memory cells induced. Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic amenia.

There is no scientific documentation to back up claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines.

Puppies receive anti bodies through their mother’s milk. This natural protection can last 8 to 14 weeks. Puppies and kittens should NOT be vaccinated at less than 8 weeks, maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced.

Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however DELAY the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccination given 2 weeks apart SUPPRESS rather than stimulate the immune system.

A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3 to 4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at 1 year 4 months) WILL PROVIDE LIFETIME IMMUNITY.

[t-time]

I don't quite know where to start as my brain is swimming with all the suggestions here

Currently my dogs get yearly C3 - also have one dog who was originally done with a C7 but that was not my choice - I too think it's a bit strange for a dog to be vaccinated for something that is so unusual in this country (coronavirus - if she were for export that would be another matter :D )

Heartworm and intestinal worms are done with an all-in-one treatment once a month. Only monthly at the moment because of friends with puppies around frequently and I figure the incidence of intestinal worms particularly, must be quite high! I've been looking at the alternative once-yearly vaccination for heartworm.

What sort of adverse reactions are we seeing with these yearly vaccinations? How prevalent is heartworm - I understand it is very high in dogs which do not get heartworm preventative? Other than the titre testing (which to be honest, sounds a little dodgy in the way that Miranda said it!) is there any other way to determine if your dog still has good immunity? Would 3 year heartworm vaccination still offer the same immunity for the AVERAGE pet owner? What IS the average pet owner? (a city or country person, or do you live in a rainforest?) ;)

A lot of the answers to these questions would need to be determined before giving an individual response. ;)

Miranda - what do you use for intestinal worms? Just sounded from your post as if you don't do your animals monthly - Just curious

I would definitely be vaccinating more often if I was fostering. More exposure, for sure and a little more vaccination AND exposure would be improving immunity? Just a thought...

The only Bordatella case I've had was from a pound case vaccinated with C5.

[Miranda]

What sort of adverse reactions are we seeing with these yearly vaccinations? How prevalent is heartworm - I understand it is very high in dogs which do not get heartworm preventative? Other than the titre testing (which to be honest, sounds a little dodgy in the way that Miranda said it!) is there any other way to determine if your dog still has good immunity? Would 3 year heartworm vaccination still offer the same immunity for the AVERAGE pet owner? What IS the average pet owner? (a city or country person, or do you live in a rainforest?)

Miranda - what do you use for intestinal worms? Just sounded from your post as if you don't do your animals monthly - Just curious :D

The only Bordatella case I've had was from a pound case vaccinated with C5.

There has been an upsurge in IMHA in recent years and there MAY be a link to annual vaccinations, many people report adverse reactions from vaccinations, but most of this is anecdotal and there is no scientific evidence that the vaccination was actually responsible.

Heartworm is becoming much more widespread (I believe that Tasmania is still heartworm free), probably a combination of climate change and the fact that dogs now travel all over the country.

Other than titre testing I know of no other way of determining immune status.

I didn't know that you could get a three year heartworm injection!

I use Drontal for intestinal worms three or four times a year, as we don't have ticks in Melbourne and I haven't had fleas in years I have no use for the monthly treatments. If my dogs did get fleas I would use Advantage.

I've just had kennel cough in two C5 vaccinated puppies too.

Sorry, but I don't know how to quote and answer individual sentences in a post

[t-time]

That's great! Thanks!

I thought this thread was about 3 year vaccines?? (Oh just noticed another thread down the page - Sorry, might have this all wrong )

Edited to add : sorry, I AM getting mixed up - 3 vaccines vs yearly heartworm - thought there was a 3 yr heartworm vaccine all of a sudden!

Edited September 14, 2006 by t-time

[westielover]

I share exactly the same view as you Miranda! I agree that we are over vaccinating our dogs.

Very, very interesting article Alprazolam!

I recently read a story about a Goldren retreiver who died from receiving an annual vaccination in the UK magazine called 'Dogs Today. Go to this link and click on the article which starts with Golden Retrievers are bouncy, happy dogs, who fill their owners' lives with light. Spangler shone the same magic on his family - until he received a booster jab.......

Very sad story!

After reading the story - click on 'vaccine' in the menu across the top of the page and work your way thru the headings - very interesting reading!

Edited September 14, 2006 by westielover