mirawee Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 In light of the yearly heartworm vaccine debate and most peoples statements that they wouldn't give them because if the dogs do have a reaction it will be in their system for longer I started to wonder...will everyone boycott the 3 year vaccine for the same reason? I have talked to several vets and none of them recommend the 3 year vaccine...now is this purely because of money or is it because they are not convince it is worthwhile (which is their reason :rolleyes: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJack Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 My flyball club looked at changing our vaccination requirement to this new 3 year vacination but we ended up abandoning the idea. We might look at it again in a few years after it is more widely spread accepted practice at local vets, but then again, maybe not. One of our members is a vet student so we had advice through her links to Sydney Uni. We found that while the reccomendation was to drop the c5 to every 3 years, there was still a requirement to do the Kennel Cough (bordatella) annually. In this situation you'd have to do the intranasal inhalation type, not the injection (and I'm not really sure of the reason for this.) There was concern that people would just not bother with the bordatella and we'd end up having to police it and it became too hard. I also got the impression that vets weren't 100% behind it yet as the annual vaccinationn appointment is often the only health check a dog gets so they lose the only opportunity to keep an eye on the dog's healt (and gein the income from the consult fee!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was under the impression that the 3 year vaccine is exactly the same as the yearly vaccine, they have simply realised that immunity lasts longer than the one year previously advised. Can anyone comment on this? I can see why a lot of vets wouldn't recommend it, yearly vaccinations are a money making machine for them. Won't affect me anyway, I do puppy shots and the 16 months booster and that's it for my dogs. {{We found that while the reccomendation was to drop the c5 to every 3 years, there was still a requirement to do the Kennel Cough (bordatella) annually. In this situation you'd have to do the intranasal inhalation type, not the injection (and I'm not really sure of the reason for this.) There was concern that people would just not bother with the bordatella and we'd end up having to police it and it became too hard.}} I had my two puppies vaccinated with a C5 in May, usually I only ever do a C3, but I thought I'd try it. They both came down with kennel cough two weeks ago so I certainly don't advocate the annual kennel cough vaccines either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted September 12, 2006 Author Share Posted September 12, 2006 I did originally think it was just the normal one extended to 3 years too but from everything I have heard the vaccine is a stronger version of the yearly one....off to do a google search now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Miranda - have you ever had any of your dogs titre tested 2-3-4 years down the track to check their immunity levels? Just wondering because I am considering not vaccinating my dogs anymore. They are 6 & 5 yrs old and are overdue by 3 months now - my vet suggested that I vaccinate before the the year is out but I am still undecided. Also - the kennel cough vaccination only last for 6 months at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Westie I have mine titred every 3 - 4 years - mine haven't been vaccinated since 14 months old - last set of titres showed high levels of antibodies - even had my vet impressed - he stopped sending me vaccination reminders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Titre levels will only be high if your dog has recently come into contact with the disease and its immune system has been challenged, so if you have a dog that lives in a backyard in a remote area and never comes into contact with other dogs it's likely that its titre levels will be low, but that doesn't mean that its immunity is low. Dogs that are constantly out and about in public places and mixing with other dogs are likely to show high titres because their immune system is probably challenged on a regular basis. So no I'm not considering titre testing. If I were you I wouldn't vaccinate my 5 and 6 year old dogs, but that's a decision you must make for yourself. My old bitch who died 2 years ago never had a vaccination after 16 months of age and she was out and about her whole life, she died at 13 of mammary cancer. My puppies were vaccinated against kennel cough in May this year and they both came down with it in August, approximately 3 1/2 months following the C5. Interestingly none of my older dogs have contracted it and they have only ever had a C3. Although I'm a strong advocate for vaccination of puppies I won't do annual boosters and I won't be bothering with C5 vaccs in the future either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Our wonderful Vet has adopted the 3yr protocol for the parvo C3 vaccine and then leaves the decision up to the owner about KC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJack Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 alot of clubs (flyball, obedience etc) require proof of annual vaccination anyway so if you wat to participate you have to vaccinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieGTA Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 As was stated above the "3yr vax" is not a new vax, its a new protocol. Its the same injection they have always had, just less regular. Attached is a link to the AAHA outlining the study proformed and the new protocol that came out of it. Studies have shown that over Vaxing your dog can cause health problems. It was partly due to the increase in immune problems seen in some dogs that this study was carried out. http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/vaccine_guidelines06.pdf Yes, even in the new protocol guidlines from the AAHA still recommend every year for KC. As far as using it as an excuse to bring dogs in for an annual check up, I'm sure if the owners were responsible enough to bring them in for the annual injections, then they will still be responsible enough to bring them in for an annual check up. Other than that its a money making exercise and a danger to the dog (some breeds especially). Some breeders I have talked to have actually been doing this for some time, its only now that the word is getting out amonst the wider community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) Dogs that are constantly out and about in public places and mixing with other dogs are likely to show high titres because their immune system is probably challenged on a regular basis. This describes the life of my dogs! They were titre tested about 3 years ago and the titres were high - so that's good I suppose! Westie I have mine titred every 3 - 4 years - mine haven't been vaccinated since 14 months old - last set of titres showed high levels of antibodies - even had my vet impressed - he stopped sending me vaccination reminders! This proves what Miranda says is true! If I were you I wouldn't vaccinate my 5 and 6 year old dogs, but that's a decision you must make for yourself. I don't want to vaccainte them anymore - it is now 18 months or so since their last vaccination. The only thing that worries me is that I do fostering and I do pull dogs directly out of the pound and bring them to my home. To date I have been lucky in that I haven't rescued a dog with parvo. I don't want to lose my dogs should they ever become exposed to a pound dog with parvo - that would break my heart! However, I don't want them to have compromised immune systems because of over vaccinating. I don't want to stop fostering either. I should set up some sort of proper quarratine area. However, if my dogs immune system is constantly challenged on a regular basis - does this mean that if my 'unvaccinated' dog comes into contact with a dog with parvo - my dogs immune system should be able to fight it off - right? or wrong? Edited September 13, 2006 by westielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 However, if my dogs immune system is constantly challenged on a regular basis - does this mean that if my 'unvaccinated' dog comes into contact with a dog with parvo - my dogs immune system should be able to fight it off - right? or wrong? Well I believe yes, but I am not a vet. Humans are not vaccinated every year to protect against viral diseases and I really cannot understand why dogs need to be. The only disease that you need booster vaccinations for is tetanus and that is caused by a bacterium not a virus. Once the immune system has been challenged by a disease it 'remembers' the virus and will automatically go into attack mode if it detects it again. Back in the bad old days when vaccines for dogs just didn't exist, many professional dog people wouldn't buy a dog unless it was 'over distemper', the reason being that a dog that had had distemper (if it survived) never got it again. Good dogs were expensive (I am talking sporting/working dogs here) and no dog person would waste money on a young puppy that was almost certainly going to contract distemper and had a good chance of dying from it. Anyway these are my personal beliefs based on my personal research and as I say I am NOT a vet or a scientist and I am certainly not recommending that you do what I do. I haven't been vaccinating annually for over 12 years (since I had a dog die of an auto immune disease), I do however do all the puppy vaccs and the 16 month booster as a dog's immune system isn't fully operational until six months of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The only disease that you need booster vaccinations for is tetanus and that is caused by a bacterium not a virus. That's not true at all. Many of us do lose immunity after our childhood vaccinations, but aren't generally checked for immunity (unless you work in a field where its important you are immune). I had to have a number of immunisations redone in my 20s when I was in med school, after testing. The titre testing-immunity concept also seems a bit muddled above. I would discuss this with an imformed vet if I were the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) The only disease that you need booster vaccinations for is tetanus and that is caused by a bacterium not a virus. That's not true at all. Many of us do lose immunity after our childhood vaccinations, but aren't generally checked for immunity (unless you work in a field where its important you are immune). I had to have a number of immunisations redone in my 20s when I was in med school, after testing. The titre testing-immunity concept also seems a bit muddled above. I would discuss this with an imformed vet if I were the OP. We are speaking mainly about parvo here and parvo is still common in Australia, dogs only live around 12/14 years on average and would be constantly exposed if they are taken out into the community so surely this would mean that immunity would be constantly challenged and that antibody levels would be relatively high? I do concede that an old dog who has been kept in isolation may certainly require a booster if taken into suburbia. I can understand that one may need to have a booster of one of the childhood vaccinations if travelling overseas to a country where the disease is still common or if working in a field where exposure to a virus is likely, that makes perfect sense to me. Edited September 13, 2006 by Miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Thanks Miranda - totally understand you are not a vet and you do what you do by choice & past experience. I am hearing of more & more people doing what you do. I have been questioning the annual vaccs for the past couple of hears - everyone has different opinions. As for speaking to a vet - my vet (who is a legend IMHO) has told me that I should vaccinate my dogs because I take in rescue dogs - however, how many vets will say 'oh no - you don't need to vaccinate your dog' - imagine the possible law suits on badly given advice should the dog happen to die of parvo or distemper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 We are speaking mainly about parvo here Oh, I thought maybe we were also talking about distemper and hepatitis. Regardless, yes, parvo is still common, and dogs will probably be exposed to it when out and about. That might "boost their immune system" if they have adequate immunity, but if they don't, they could get it. one may need to have a booster of one of the childhood vaccinations if travelling overseas to a country where the disease is still common or if working in a field where exposure to a virus is likely, that makes perfect sense to me. Or bacteria... eg whooping cough. If your original premise was true, those of us exposed to these diseases regularly (in workplaces etc) would be MORE likely to be immune, since we are constantly being "challenged" by the disease, and therefore LESS likely to need boosters. But the reasoning is that a good proportion of the immunised community do lose effective immunity years after childhood vaccines. Most people don't get exposed to high risk situations (eg sick kids in large numbers, or people likely to have infectious disease) so their risk of catching it is small, and the consequences less serious (eg whooping cough- not uncommon in adults, but not as serious as in a child health nurse, for example). I'm not keen on over-vaccination- my older dogs don't get yearly vaccs, and I accept there are limitations to the usefulness of titre-testing (how much is enough?)- but its definitely a better option than not vaccinating and not testing, especially in dogs that are "out and about". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 (edited) mjk05, do you think that parvo will ever become as rare as distemper if all puppies are consistently vaccinated against it? Also does a virus such as parvo mutate? I have heard differing opinions on this even amongst vets, why is it that some viruses mutate and others don't? Nice to be able to get an expert's opinion on all this stuff, virus mutation is something that has always intrigued my layman's brain Edited September 13, 2006 by Miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirawee Posted September 13, 2006 Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 See I knew I could spark a debate. I have talked to vets at 3 different clinics in WA...all have said they will not be moving into 3 yearly vaccinations until more information/feedback comes from it. All have said/indicated that it is a completely different vaccine with increased levels of whatever they have in vaccines to make them effective So either they have it wrong/are not well informed/or Australia is once again doing something different to America (Thanks for the link to the American info though...I would be interested in knowing if a similar appraisal has been done in Australia.) Interestingly, of my 6 dogs, 3 are vaccinated yearly (the 3 that go out and about regularly, although one is only 6 months old) We had kennel cough come through starting with the 6 month old...hers was very light over in 36 hours, then another of the vaccinated dogs got it, worse cough but was over it in 2 days, the other vaccinated dog coughed for a total of 6 hours! Two of the unvaccinated got it with a bad cough and it hung around for over a week for both! The other unvaccinated dog, who happens to be the oldest with other health/respiratory issues didn't get it at all So my "study" shows that unvaccinated dogs could have KC worse or not get it at all compared to vaccinated dogs. What does this prove...absolutely nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Nice to be able to get an expert's opinion on all this stuff, Remind me where I claimed expert status? I'm not a vet either, which is why I suggested the OP might be best to consult one. But there's an awful lot of quasi-science floating about on the internet... and I'm constantly surprised by the poor level of knowledge in the general community about vaccines and the diseases they are designed to prevent, given that they affect us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Nice to be able to get an expert's opinion on all this stuff, Remind me where I claimed expert status? I'm not a vet either, which is why I suggested the OP might be best to consult one. But there's an awful lot of quasi-science floating about on the internet... and I'm constantly surprised by the poor level of knowledge in the general community about vaccines and the diseases they are designed to prevent, given that they affect us all. Sorry mjk05 I read your post where you made a reference to med school and assumed that you were a doctor. My mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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