Rozzie Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 He is gorgeous.... hopefully you'll get through the night OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymbo Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Yep, I will be back in the morning for an update ...I am still up as you can see, so decided to ask a question ( read: annoy you guys some more) in your training section about my puppy Thankyou for your kind words; yes he is gorgeous...he is a terrier/poodle x, and started to go blind when 2 years old...he was diagnosed with PRA around then, and was fully blind by 4...not that you would know it. As the vet said to me at the time, it is often harder on the owners, than on the pet, and this is so true in my case. Murphy is resting peacefully still, so the double whammy of local must have been a good thing. I know I still can't feel my fingers properly tho ( I had it on my fingers too long cause he was being difficult, and didn't have any disposable gloves hahah) The vet should give me something, as well as a small supply, as I have S4 stuff here for the horse too, and he knows I won't misuse etc...I hope he has a good night! I have just never seen any dog so sore I am sorry you lost your lovely golden oldie I dread the day also... See you guys in the morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 God knows why more vets don't offer pain relief after procedures. I always ask about it and will give it if the dog looks uncomfortable. I think the logic is that by removing the pain, we may encourage dogs to do too much and set back their healing. Nothing a crate can't fix IHMO. Metacam would always be my first choice - but you need to get it from your vet. NEVER feed paracetamol or ibuprofen - fast way to kill your dog. I have heard children's asprin used before. The key issue with any drug is dosage - without veterinary advice as to dosage you are gambling with your dog's health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 (edited) Our Gracie was in agony for 3 nights after an op to relieve an impacted anal gland. Her main pain came from the shaven area around her bottom which reacted with a chemical burn from whatever antiseptic she'd been swabbed with. The only meds she's been given for home was a topical cream....containing a local anaesthetic. But, at first, the cream might have well been water. Her pain was so severe. I finally got her to a vet I trust...& he said the pain arises from severe inflammation...so he gave Gracie tablets that were a powerful anti-inflammatory. For the first time in 3 days/nights, she got some sleep between doses. I can't remember the name of these pills...but this vet said, in these circumstances, this kind of med would be more effective than a straight pain-killer. (It might have been Metacam...because they gave her 20mg injectable after the op in hosptial but they didn't give any pill-form to take home....only the cream.) Please find a vet you trust...& enquire about the use of a powerful anti-inflammatory. ADDITION: Checked...it was Metacam that the 2nd vet prescribed in pill form for home care. I recall this vet strongly stated it had to be short-term use. Fortunately it worked out so...& along with the topical cream...there was improvement. Here's info: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1752 Edited September 6, 2006 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hi Kym, How is he this morning. I hope you b oth got some rest through the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymbo Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hi Puggles....we made it thru the night! I have rang the vet, and am popping up there in another few minutes for some sort of tablets for him...I will talk to the vet when I get there, as I only got to speak to the receptionist as the vet was doing an emergency caesar. I put the cream on him first thing this morning, and he is still pretty sore :D I never even thought to ask about pain relief when I was first at the vets....I presumed that cream must have been pretty strong I suppose. Thanks for all the help and concern, and thanks to varicool who told me about this site! cheers kym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Metacam is an anti-inflammatory liquid you give by syringe. :D Now you know why I need a vet - its NOT a general pain killer. I guess when ever my dogs have been in pain, its been inflammation related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 please guys, don't take this the wrong way...but where are you all getting your information about paracetamol??? Paracetamol is toxic to cats...but is ok for dogs...however Codiene is not (so no panadine!) When my old Dobe broke one of his teeth, and was in considerable pain (and I couldn't get him into the vets until the next day) the vet advised me to give him 500mg of paracetamol every 4 hours (equivalent to 1 panamax tablet) this was for a 34kg dog...so for a smaller dog I would reduce the dosage accordingly. But my vet said that paracetamol was very safe to administer to dogs! In my experience, medications that are applicable for horses are also indicated for dogs, but in smaller doses of course, so if you have something like bute available, this could be tolerated by your dog..just watch the dosage, and follow vets advice about the dosage calculations. If he is distressed, but not in pain...I would consider Ace (ACP) half a tab (or even a 1/4) should give him a very good night's sleep but this should only be used as a very short term tranq...and he should be kept under supervision at all times whilst he's on it. (also watch for paradoxical effects when giving tranqs...it depends on the individual animal how they tolerate it...in some it can actually hype them up) My young dobe responded well to ACP when I needed to use it...but had a paradoxical effect from diazapam...which my vet reccomended I use. Now I am NOT a vet. But I have had a fair bit of experience with both dogs & horses, so I'm just passing on my own experience, nothing more, nothing less....but please give your vet (or an afterhours emergency vet) a call first to confirm before administering any new drug to your dog. They can advise dosages specific to your situation & describe the types of reactions that you need to look out for. but as to why everyone is saying no paracetamol to dogs....In my experience, and my vet's advice, it's not a problem. Paracetamol to CATS is FATAL. I would also be very cautious in recommending asprin for dogs, unless their Von Willibrand's status is known to be negative. giving asprin to a Von Willibrand's affected dog could cause internal bleeding. Aus P.S. I have found that dogs that have skin irritation, respond well to essential chamomile oil 5% blend applied topically, it seems to stop the itching within 5 mins! Ongoing dermatitis seems to respond well to eliminating red meat from the diet..ie go to a chicken based diet. good luck..hope he feels better soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymbo Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 well the vet was in surgery so we were yelling between walls as such HHH so I never actually got to ask about the paracetamol...BUT I got some Previcox which is an pain killer and anti-inflamitory tablet. I have enough for a few days, with the instruction to bring him back if not really on the upswing by friday. Re: the Bute. I had a pony that was on it constantly ( old pony/arthritus) and I remember the vet telling me to make sure the dog doesn't get into the horse feed ( he used to help eat the hard feed, and that was where I was going to put the bute) cause it would kill him. I never asked whether it was the quantity, or the actual drug in any quantity, but I would not be game to give it to a dog.... About the paracetamol, I googled, and saw conflicting advice, all from vet sites, hense why I asked again here. I know vets all have different views on different drugs and their applications....maybe some think the possible side effects of eg: panadol are worth the benifit at the time, or that the dog won't be on it long enough for it to be accumulative? I am definately going to make the time to ring the vet and ask about: panadol aspirin bute ace and their applications in doggies. Maybe a few of the members here could do the same, and then we might get a good cross section of advice? On a good note, the tablet has licked in wioth Murphy well and truely I think, as he looks like he is resting more comfortably :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymbo Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 ^^^^excuse the typos up there ^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) He's a gorgeous looking boy. Do hope he's feeling better this morning. On the question of paracetamol use in dogs, a quick net search shows that while a larger dose is necessary to cause significant liver damage in dogs than in cats, any use of paracetamol, at least without specific veterinary advice, is regarded as highly dangerous. Here for example is a quick but useful summary by a vet. ETA another link from Provet UK Edited September 6, 2006 by Tassie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 It would make sense that it's use is linked to dosage levels....large doses of paracetamol in humans can cause liver damage too! :D That is why I recommend dicussing dosage with a vet first...they can calculate the amount tolerable to the size of the dog I'm guessing that the advice re the bute was again, one of dosage levels...a pony is a lot bigger than a dog & therefore a pony sized dose might not be the "best thing" from a dog's point of view! ....even in horses...bute is a drug which must be carefully considered, and usually (except in exceptional cases) is not advised for administration for a period longer than 2 weeks. As it's use over the long term can cause other complications that can outweigh the original condition. phenylbutazone is an NSAID..(non-steroidal anti-inflamitory drug) dosages are carefully prescribed for ponies compared with horses due to it's potency....therefore in use in a dog..the amount needed would be miniscule in comparison to even a pony. Contra- indications are irritation of the stomach lining, gastrointestinal dysfunction & bone & marrow abnormalities if bute is used as a long term treatment. ...again...I recommend vet's advice, however if you have these drugs on hand...used correctly they can provide relief in emergencies! I also forgot to metion lotagen....something I also have in my first aid kit! ...it prevents proud flesh from forming by eating away at dead cells, but leaves live cells intact. (so don't let it touch any leather objects!!!) It's usually used with horses (who are prone to proud flesh scarring) however, if your dog is a show dog....it might be wise to keep some on hand (available from vet pescription) as it facilitates wound healing with minimal scarring. Acetylpromazine (Ace, ACP) is actually an antihisthamin...but is used mainly as a sedative.....however, it also has properties of analgesia (relieving pain) so can be very usefull in the treatment of irritation & inflamation. One of the side effects to watch for is that it can cause a drop in blood pressure, which is why I recommended supervision at all times. It should not be used in animals who are in shock or are comprimised by a debilitating condition. cheers Aus ...and glad to here your boy is feeling more comfortable!!! I know what it feels like to watch an animal suffer & I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thanks Tassie for those links....but I think that neither actually refute what I'm saying...if anything they confirm it! ie: seek vet advice about correct dosages for your specific dog! I just didn't want to see people panicking if their vet actually prescribed paracetamol in a safe dose...the way the message was comming across was that paracetamol was as dangerous for dogs as it is for cats...and that isn't specifically the truth. As with any drug....a certain dose can be beneficial...an overdose can be fatal....this holds true for both animals & humans. Because each species metabolises different drugs in different ways & at different rates, it is IMPERATIVE to get proffesional advice tailored to the specific requirement (whether it be human or animal), however, to blanket advise people to NEVER administor a certain drug, even though in the correct dosage it is indicated for those specific circumstances, I felt was something that needed to be clarified hope I'm not getting anyone offside...but I tend to take a scientific approach to these sort of things...I'm a pedantic "bitch"! :D Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 PLEASE!!!! NEVER use any medications not prescribed for your animal before talking to your VET!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 PLEASE!!!!NEVER use any medications not prescribed for your animal before talking to your VET!! ....unless you have had prior advice & experience in administoring those drugs to the specific animal :D ..sorry...I just had to add that! ) Aus quick intervention can make all the difference if you are educated & experienced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 The problem being not EVERYONE that reads advice or gives advice on internet forums is experienced. Sorry I just had to add that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australdi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 cool Nadia :D I get where you're comming from! Aus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymbo Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Just a quicky...I don't know whether the new tablet is working, whether he is just feeling better or the antibiotics have kicked in ....but he didn't struggle AT ALL when applying the cream YAY no screaming or anything. He calmly got up when I said good boy, and went to the treat cupboard, and sat waiting for his liver reward HHHHHHHHHHHHHH Thanks you so much for all the support last night, here and on msn kym and a lot happier Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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