E Collars Aus - Question For Steve And E Collar Users.

[Denis Carthy]

Snobbybobby

Just to add I have tried the anti barking collar on my neck - the output of that is aprox 50 times stonger than the ecollar.

Denis

Ohhhh dear snobbybobby – I have only just reached that post, now I understand – well each unto their own as they say, one of our kennel Club members, Phil Buckley seems to have your ‘inclinations’ – read the link below for non-dog owning Glaswegians viewpoints of your…’activities with dog equipment'.

http://www.ukchatterbox.co.uk/msg/538351

[Denis Carthy]

lab and poodle

I have a further question from K9force. How is it that the level from an "e" collar is regarded as a stimulation?

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Is it to do with the drive model of a dog's behaviour, or is it in comparison with a TENS machine in physio?

Denis

I understand the drives butI don’t know what you mean by drive model canyou explain it please?

Same again with drive model, are tense machines designed for attracting attention off an area of natural pain in order to distract the user from the natural pain/ whats their purpose if not that?

Edited September 18, 2006 by Denis Carthy

[Denis Carthy]

Labpoodle

Last I heard it was the other way around.(80/90% success rate, Dr John Fisher mentioned in his book Dogwise).

Denis

He died some years ago, there were reliability problems with static anti barks going back many years, only the Tri Tronics Barklimiter was reliable but we are not talking about obsolete studies or the collars to which they refer ( and you have failed to name one single make or model of anti-bark ).

By around 2000 all the reputable statics had dramatically improved, these days there are very few unreliable anti-bark collars. I always recommend the Petsafe De Lux here in UK, it has a sound censor and a vibration censor, unless both activate it cannot go off.

As far as any of these go they are judged on if the benefits out weight any disadvantages. They are not judged on whether one or 51 anti bark went of accidentally making the dog jump and slightly slowing down the learning process out of the last 5 million sold and successfully used. They are judged on whether or not they saved a fraction under 5 million dogs from rescue and eventual PTS (no one in cities or urban environment scan keep a nuisance barker ) or the other alternative the larynx severing op, compared to 51 that jumped slight when a collar went off accidentally.

As regards your source, John Fisher, he knew nothing at all about any modern collars. He was the founding member of APDT UK (Association of Pet Dog Trainers) all members had to agree not use e-collars AND not to learn anything at all about e-collar technological development after 1993, that was just one year after Tri Tronics changed to the, then, new digital technology, (after 24 years of analogue technogy), and the advantages and welfare benefits it might bring in the years after. Anyone who's attitude is/was "I deny myself the abilty to learn about all futour technological developement in this feild and its benfits and shortfalls" is clearly nothing but someone who has nothing new and advantageus to offer the dog training world, a time warp mind or a warped mind?

My own approach in 1993 was that I felt they had no advantages to training, there were better training aids to fit into methods, they were also quite harsh and unnecessary and they were unreliable anyway, however, I never ruled out the unknown, un invented, possibilities which in 1993 lay several years ahead.

John Fisher could offer no information on modern e-collars at all, I suspect what he refers to in the book you quote are the Cornell Uni studies of around 1995, those studies are invalid as they are [a] Long since obsolete, so is the equipment they exclude the make and model of any collars, maybe you should try one of K9's courses or seminars and come back with some up to date info for readers who are not yet familiar with e-collars, all you can mange, based on your Fisher quotes, is like getting flying instructions from the Wright bro's and then go for a spin in a 747.

There is also the question of John Fishers sanity or alternatively his rip off business practices and the practices of his APDT UK contempory counterparts, see link below and be carefull, irational insanity can be infectious.

Was APDT UK founder insane.

http://www.freewebs.com/deniscarthy/wasapd...nderamadman.htm

Edited September 18, 2006 by Denis Carthy

[Denis Carthy]

Sidoney

Subjectively, having tried various ecollar levels on myself, the lower levels are more akin to some kind of stimulation and not painful until much higher, with quite a gradient in between.

Denis

Hi

It is not the 'intenstity', there are two parts - 'intensity + accumulation'. start scratching your arm at a point where it is uncomfortable but not overwhelming and see how long it takes befor the sensation accumulates to a point you want to sop it - like standing still in full sun untill you get to uncomfortable = intensity + accumulation .

Edited September 18, 2006 by Denis Carthy

[Livi]

Snobbybobby

Just to add I have tried the anti barking collar on my neck - the output of that is aprox 50 times stonger than the ecollar.

Denis

Ohhhh dear snobbybobby – I have only just reached that post, now I understand – well each unto their own as they say, one of our kennel Club members, Phil Buckley seems to have your ‘inclinations’ – read the link below for non-dog owning Glaswegians viewpoints of your…’activities with dog equipment'.

http://www.ukchatterbox.co.uk/msg/538351

:D did you have to post that link Denis

As if I haven't copped enough teasing from the fact I once posted something along the lines of "I can personally recommend the electronic anti-bark collar" (on a non dog forum)

I have also tried it out, but not for kinky reasons, just to see if it was working and what it does, I figure if I could handle it on the lowest setting the dog definately wouldn't have a problem

[Denis Carthy]

lab and poodle

To the moderator: I have no desire to be on this list, it disgusts me.

Denis

But yet you state you read, then quote, implying you are influenced by, a man whose practices probably killed an unknown number of dogs, to cover up his inabilities as a trainer to perpetuate his own income, and that influence on you does not disgust you?

If your passing on John Fishers policy of kill the dog but get the money to pet owers then it's heaven help pet dogs and their owners who pass your way.

Scroll to the pet dog owner.

Mad Max Lady Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:13 pm

http://www.dogchat.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic....858740a16da47fe

Edited September 18, 2006 by Denis Carthy

[Steve K9Pro]

L&P: K9, you again didn't answer the questions after making assertions

K9: I have no idea why you think I am under some obligation to answer your questions.

L&P": you didn't debate the point , you had another go at me, yet you don't know me. what the hell is wrong with you?

K9: Im tired of your constant trolling with absolutely no interest in furthering these discussions...

L&P: I really wouldn't want to be associatted with you or your methods if this is how you behave.

K9: Then dont be, I cant see where anyone is asking you too?

L&P: Of course, you must know everything, and my input on shock and associated issues is not valid.

K9: Maybe you can show me where I said I know everything?

& no, your input is not valid...

L&P: I am glad you have 27 years of experience with electronic engineering and can completely bypass this.

K9: I havent said this either, but you seem to have trouble reading... Do you think an experienced surgeon needs to know the angle that the scalpel is sharpened to use one?

L&P: I promise you that if I had a need to buy one, I wouldn't buy it off you.

K9: Your 100% right on that one...

L&P: To the moderator: I have no desire to be on this list, it disgusts me.

K9: Hey just resist that urge you have to come back...

Your trolling actions are obvious, Im surprised your still here...

[MonElite]

Denis :D

if there is any petition - where do I sign?

To the moderator: I have no desire to be on this list, it disgusts me.

;) ;) ;)

BTW if that vid for your pysio friend was meant to be a demo of prey drive training, Some one should tell her.

You just did. Thanks for your opinion. Thats if you were talking about me of course.

it certainly didn't do anything for me.

It wasnt designed to do anything for you, Im wondering why would you think it was. Can you enlightlen me pls.

As to the training methods, equipement and results - Why dont you show all of us your dogs training so that somoene can tell you what they think of it. Not that you would care of course. I get this distinct feeling that we already asked you for a video and you still, month later, didnt deliver one.....

[RealityBites]

:D Denis!! If that's not enough research material then I don't know what is!!! Now I'm off to check my, uuuuhhhhhh, bedroom equipment to make sure it stimulates in the right areas without stopping my heart...................

[Jason Fisher]

Mr Carthy , you seem to have a great dislike for my late father and that is your choice . However i can not understand why you are making defamatory comments towards a man that passed away many years ago and cannot defend himself .

I am asking you as John Fishers son to remove my fathers name from your website and to please let him rest in peace .

Thankyou .

Jason Fisher .