Teaching "take" And "give" Or "hold" A D

[Mornir]

Kavik

WEll I got them to reliably grab the bit successfully 20times. I started off with holding a bell in each hand so that only the bit was exposed (I have an i-click so that isn't a problem, I just held that in my hand as well -between my palm and the bell- and when the dog grabbed the bit I just applied a little more pressure to my hold which got me a click )

I did 10 of those, and then I did another 10 successfully where i just held one bell and the dog grabbed the bit. But as soon as I put the dumbell on the floor he went straight for the bell and picked it up with it kind of dangling out of his mouth.

So I went back a step and he 'got it' so we progressed, only with no success.

Dunno. Maybe I am pushing too hard. We have put it away for tonight and I will try again tomorrow night.

Thanks for your help.

[MrsD]

Kavik

WEll I got them to reliably grab the bit successfully 20times. I started off with holding a bell in each hand so that only the bit was exposed (I have an i-click so that isn't a problem, I just held that in my hand as well -between my palm and the bell- and when the dog grabbed the bit I just applied a little more pressure to my hold which got me a click )

I did 10 of those, and then I did another 10 successfully where i just held one bell and the dog grabbed the bit. But as soon as I put the dumbell on the floor he went straight for the bell and picked it up with it kind of dangling out of his mouth.

So I went back a step and he 'got it' so we progressed, only with no success.

Dunno. Maybe I am pushing too hard. We have put it away for tonight and I will try again tomorrow night.

Thanks for your help.

Mornir, if your dog is taking it correctly from your hands in front his face, but not from the floor, why dont you progressivly lower your hands towards the floor getting him to take it correctly all the way down & then put your hands on it on the floor & then take your hands away? (hope that made sense ).

So hold both ends in front of face, takes correctly - click. Hold one end at face level, takes it correctly - click. Lower dumbell 2 inches, hold with both hands, takes correctly - click. Hold dumbell with one hand a same height, takes correctly - click. Hold with 2 hands, lower 2 more inches etc etc, down until you have both hands on it on the floor, then one hand & finally take the hands off it altogether.

Sounds like you are just going too fast - to the dog, a dumbell on the floor may be a totally different thing to what he takes out of your hands. Just because he will take it from your hands the right way doesnt mean he automatically knows that taking it from the floor should be done the same way. Go back to basics & show him .

Edited September 3, 2006 by MrsD

[Mornir]

Kavik

WEll I got them to reliably grab the bit successfully 20times. I started off with holding a bell in each hand so that only the bit was exposed (I have an i-click so that isn't a problem, I just held that in my hand as well -between my palm and the bell- and when the dog grabbed the bit I just applied a little more pressure to my hold which got me a click )

I did 10 of those, and then I did another 10 successfully where i just held one bell and the dog grabbed the bit. But as soon as I put the dumbell on the floor he went straight for the bell and picked it up with it kind of dangling out of his mouth.

So I went back a step and he 'got it' so we progressed, only with no success.

Dunno. Maybe I am pushing too hard. We have put it away for tonight and I will try again tomorrow night.

Thanks for your help.

Mornir, if your dog is taking it correctly from your hands in front his face, but not from the floor, why dont you progressivly lower your hands towards the floor getting him to take it correctly all the way down & then put your hands on it on the floor & then take your hands away? (hope that made sense ).

So hold both ends in front of face, takes correctly - click. Hold one end at face level, takes it correctly - click. Lower dumbell 2 inches, hold with both hands, takes correctly - click. Hold dumbell with one hand a same height, takes correctly - click. Hold with 2 hands, lower 2 more inches etc etc, down until you have both hands on it on the floor, then one hand & finally take the hands off it altogether.

Sounds like you are just going too fast - to the dog, a dumbell on the floor may be a totally different thing to what he takes out of your hands. Just because he will take it from your hands the right way doesnt mean he automatically knows that taking it from the floor should be done the same way. Go back to basics & show him .

Absolute Genius! That's why I love hashing these things out with people, always great perspectives.

Ah thank you very much! I will give that a shot tonight.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Tassie]

Yes - helpful!

Another vote for the Shirley Chong method here - although I confess I haven't used it consistently enough. However, it got a totally non-retrieving dog into happily grasping the dumbbell but the bit from hand or floor.

My problem is that Fergus can't walk and chew gum at the same time. He tends to throw his head back when he has the dumbbell in his mouth, and that makes him walk backwards not forwards. So I'm trying to get him to hold it firmly by tugging on it, and clicking the hold, then trying walking backwards while tugging, so he takes a couple steps forward. Could be a long process! Anyone have any ideas? This is a rather anxious dog, who tries hard to do the right thing, and gets pretty stressed if he can't.

cc - do you have a link to the john fisher method you were talking about?

[MrsD]

Mornir, if your dog is taking it correctly from your hands in front his face, but not from the floor, why dont you progressivly lower your hands towards the floor getting him to take it correctly all the way down & then put your hands on it on the floor & then take your hands away? (hope that made sense ).

So hold both ends in front of face, takes correctly - click. Hold one end at face level, takes it correctly - click. Lower dumbell 2 inches, hold with both hands, takes correctly - click. Hold dumbell with one hand a same height, takes correctly - click. Hold with 2 hands, lower 2 more inches etc etc, down until you have both hands on it on the floor, then one hand & finally take the hands off it altogether.

Sounds like you are just going too fast - to the dog, a dumbell on the floor may be a totally different thing to what he takes out of your hands. Just because he will take it from your hands the right way doesnt mean he automatically knows that taking it from the floor should be done the same way. Go back to basics & show him .

Absolute Genius! That's why I love hashing these things out with people, always great perspectives.

Ah thank you very much! I will give that a shot tonight.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Hope it helps, just remember that even if you get him to do it once today, tomorrow you should still start in front of his face again but instead of the next one being 2 inches below, make it 4 inches below ie, shorten the steps to get it onto the ground. It may take a couple of days, but as long as you dont rush it, he should become reliable fairly quickly .

(BTW, what I described is exactly how I taught my completely non retrieving dog to retrieve - except that I never used two hands (cos I had already taught him "hold" by putting the dumbell in his mouth) & I just used praise instead of the clicker .

[shekhina]

I have just started the retrieve training tonight and now I can't hide the dowling piece well enough to get Daegon to leave it alone

He is such a fast learner and after just 2 minutes will "hold it" and watch me until I say "out" and he gives it back.

What is the next step? He will chase after toys, but depending on his mood he will not bring them back.

After hearing how many dogs fail to move up the levels of obedience because of the retrieve I absolutely want to make sure I get it right.

I do not clicker train, but I can bring a verbal marker into the training instead.

[MrsD]

I have just started the retrieve training tonight and now I can't hide the dowling piece well enough to get Daegon to leave it alone

He is such a fast learner and after just 2 minutes will "hold it" and watch me until I say "out" and he gives it back.

What is the next step? He will chase after toys, but depending on his mood he will not bring them back.

After hearing how many dogs fail to move up the levels of obedience because of the retrieve I absolutely want to make sure I get it right.

I do not clicker train, but I can bring a verbal marker into the training instead.

Shek, is he actually reaching for the dumbell whilst sitting at your side onlead? If he is, continue to train using the method I mentioned above (ie move the dumbell 2 inches down at a time etc until it reaches the floor). If you do that normally by that time it reaches the floor he will be getting up to get it, if not, move it out an inch at a time until he does. This is the time you need to start incorporating the "wait" command as well, so that he has to wait for a moment after you put the dumbell out in front of him before he can reach for it or pick it up. Do it all onlead & once he moves his bum to get it, incorporate his picking it up with a couple of steps backwards by yourself so that he "returns" to you after picking it up. Once hes doing that confidently over & over incorporate you "tossing it" gently in front of you instead of placing it there ie the same distance.

If he's not reaching for it whilst sitting beside you ie you need to put it near his teeth still, keep training the hold & give (or whatever you call them) until he does & gradually extend the distance as above.

If you want to use a verbal marker then you will know where to use it in each part that he learns.

Everything you do, just make it a continuation of what you have already taught him but ask just a little bit more. Two things that I suggest are to make sure you get yourself a proper dumbell as soon as you can, because whilst a piece of dowel is ok, a dumbell will "feel" different because of the weight & he will need to learn not to mouth it the same as he's done with the dowel. The second thing is if you want to proof him in holding the dumbell try doing some very basic heeling with him holding the dumbell but make sure he is very reliable in doing it first as something like that will sort the men out from the boys very very quickly & you dont want to have the situation where he drops it & refuses to pick it back up if you can help it.