From Rmb/barf Back To Dry Food

[Ah Ngau]

Hi all, some background first:-

My golden retreiver puppy has been on raw meaty bones and table scraps since joining my family. Everything is great - growth rate, weight control, energy, poo quality :rolleyes: , even his breath and body odour.

But apparantly, I am the only one feeding RMB in the neighbourhood. Every time someone asks what brand of kibble I fed, a lengthy lecture on the "science" of commercial dog food follows.

To be sure, I have read everything I can get my hands on but no amount of books and web sites can substitute first hand experience. Especially everyone, in no uncertain terms, warn me that I am killing my furkid in the long run (Got to admit that there is practically no peer review research on RMB). Hence my questions:-

1. Did anyone who fed RMB or BARF for a reasonable period of time but then went back to kibble?

2. If you did, then why?

3. On the other hand, if you never went back, how long have you been feeding RMB/BARF and how old is your dog now.

Thanks,

Ben

[KitKat]

1. Did anyone who fed RMB or BARF for a reasonable period of time but then went back to kibble?

I did.

2. If you did, then why?

I changed back to dry food because my GSD was loosing condition terrible and just wasn't doing very well on it at all.

3. On the other hand, if you never went back, how long have you been feeding RMB/BARF and how old is your dog now.

I know this isn't answering this question as you want - but thought i'd answer it as i can anyway. I've been feeding dry with a side of raw for about 12 months now and my GSD is 2yrs old now. Due to my personal experiance on Barf i chose not to feed my new pup on the same diet. Both are doing very nicely on dry with the side of raw.

However - peer pressure is no reason to stop feeding something that your dog is doing great on - whether that be barf/raw or dry. If you dog is doing nicely on it, and you are happy to continue on it...then stick to it :rolleyes:

"The best food for your dog is the food they do best on - packaged or unpackaged"

Edited September 1, 2006 by KitKat

[Hazz]

We switched over to BARF from a premium quality kibble and the results have been amazing, I'll never touch commercial food again.

Don't let people bager you with inaccurate information, if your pup is happy and healthy on your current diet then there is no need to change it.

[wolfgirl]

I think whatever your pup does well on is the most important thing. I feed mainly raw but also some quality dry food with vegies, rice, sardines, yoghurt and raw eggs, this suits my dogs but I would feed whatever I felt gave them the best condition. My motto is to listen to everyone's advice then takes what suits/applies to your dog and run with it.

[Flaves]

I feed the furkids a premium dry food with raw meat as well.

They are about to start with some yoghurt, eggs and sardines too later this week.

Read as much as possible and do what works for your pup. If it is a mix then great, if not great.

There is no point in continuing to feed the pup something that is not agreeing with him, whatever works for you both.

[Kavik]

I switched from BARF back to dry food for Diesel my GSD. Mainly because we moved further away and it was becoming time consuming (OK a bit of laziness :rolleyes: ). I haven't had any problems. Diesel has a contact allergy, but it has been the same whether he is on dry or BARF. He still gets chicken frames or wings, and an ege once a week, and the occasional serve of fish, as well as fish oil. (as do the other dogs). I just found doing the veges too time consuming.

[Ah Ngau]

1. Did anyone who fed RMB or BARF for a reasonable period of time but then went back to kibble?

I did.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Would you mind tell me how long has it been on RMB?

I changed back to dry food because my GSD was loosing condition terrible and just wasn't doing very well on it at all.

What gives? What exactly was the worsening condition? How old was the GSD at that time? Any illness at that time?

I know i ask a lot question. No intention to steer the thread into pro/anti RMB debate. I just want to know what sign to look for if my little guy's health is heading south.

Cheers,

Ben

[KitKat]

I'm not pro or anti anything - if something works for hte dog in question then that's great.

My boy was about 5 months old when i changed him to raw - i was told it was the best thing for him and 'fell into line' as it were - it was the worst thing i could have done for Bronx. I was feeding waaaay more then the recommended amount for a pup, his coat was dry and course, you could easily feel his back bone and hips bones, he couldn't keep weight on, etc. He was on barf/raw for about 7-8 months as i tried to see if it was the protien source that was the problem - within weeks of putting him back onto dry with a side of raw he was looking better, actually putting weight on and keeping it.

Dogs are individuals some do better on some things then others, indeed my dogs do better on some brands of dry then others. It's just one of those things...when you find something that works go with it, if you think your dogs could be doing better then try something else.

[Ah Ngau]

I feed the furkids a premium dry food with raw meat as well.

They are about to start with some yoghurt, eggs and sardines too later this week.

Read as much as possible and do what works for your pup. If it is a mix then great, if not great.

...

Hi Kristie,

The problem is, the more I read, the more I realise how much I don't know. That's why I started this thread to see the long term condition of dogs on RMB/BARF.

I can't just accept the argument that nature is best, so what a wolf eats is the best for my boy. There isn't a single peer reviewed study showing that RMB is better than kibble.

On the flip side, IMO it is a load of BS that any dry food is a balance diet for your dog. Nutrient requirment varies for each dog because of their living environment, daily activity, genetic disposition and etc. One size really can't fit all no matter how "PREMIUM" it is. What is perfect for Barker may not be the best for Mitchi.

regards,

ben

[westielover]

I have been feeding my dogs BARF since they were puppies. They are west highland terriers (very prone to skin conditons) and are now 6 & 5 years old. They are both very healthy dogs and have never had any skin problems.

When feeding BARF - you must add other foods. You cannot just feed raw meat & bones. Tablescraps are good as long as there are no cooked bones been fed to your dog. Other things to add to the BARF diet are (as other posters have suggested) yogurt/cottage cheese/sardines/canned salmon/lots of blended green leafy veggies (asian veggies & spinach are great) - teaspoon of olive oil every now and then. I am not a strict BARFer in terms of making sure each meal is 100% nutrionally balanced - but I always ensure there are ingredients included in their diet besides just meat & bones.

The other things I do in terms of treats is stay away from 'processed' treats such as schmakos etc. I tend to buy dried fish/dried kangaroo/dried pig ears & snouts/dried lamb meat / dried liver to give as treats.

I find that my boys are in great health - they have good skin/bright eyes/clean teeth/good breath - perform solidly each day and don't see much of the vet!!!

I'm grateful that I was told about the BARF diet and I'm grateful that it is working well for my dogs.

[Ah Ngau]

We switched over to BARF from a premium quality kibble and the results have been amazing, I'll never touch commercial food again.

...

Hazz,

How long since you made that switch?

Ben

[noisymina]

My golden retreiver puppy has been on raw meaty bones and table scraps since joining my family. Everything is great - growth rate, weight control, energy, poo quality tongue.gif , even his breath and body odour.

I think by now you realise that, while raw meaty bones are a major component of the BARF method, table scraps don't really make the grade as the vegetable component.

Other components like offal, fish, oils, eggs, and even some cereals (oats, barley) are included in my dogs diet.

My Dobe came to us as a 4-year old and I started her on BARF soon after. That was about 2 1/2 years ago now. Her skin and coat have gradually improved over that time and she was actually gaining a bit too much weight - so her meaty bones have been reduced and fewer of the fattier ones are being fed. She is in excellent "working" condition and not fat.

She goes ballistic over a carrot or the end of the celery. No need to make special treats for her.

:rolleyes:

[JulesP]

I did full on Barf for about 4 years. I did the whole juicing of veggies, brewers yeast, kelp etc. I had always fed the dogs well so can't honestly say that I noticed a great improvement on Barf. They did love eating it though! The reason I stopped was a silly one I guess - I fed my bitch Barf whilst she was pregnant and one of the pups got stuck and died, thanks to a silly vet not believing me that something was wrong I nearly lost my girl. The pup that died was huge, all the pups were pretty big. I always wondered if it was because I had fed her too well. So just a psychological thing I guess and me feeding too much, not a problem with Barf but it did throw me.

I went back to totally processed with some bones still. Now I do a modified Barf, good kibble and other stuff. The dogs look great.

[Jed]

I have been feeding a raw diet forever. When dry food was "invented" - in the seventies, I think - I did feed some of that too, ditto, tinned food when it was "invented". For a time, and then reverted to raw.

My dogs eat a raw diet - basically what Billinghurst recommends. However I keep a bag of dry food so that if I am home late, I can feed them easily and quickly. I do not buy barf patties, I process veges and add to the meat daily.

My rationale is this.

1 You can't see what is in dry food. And some of the ingredients don't look too wholesome to me.

2 If the premium foods are made of the good things they say they are (and I have no reason to doubt that) they are simply what I am feeding, processed, and persented in pellet form. Why not feed the food in its original form?

There are a lot of arguments about types of food.

My daughter, for instance, feeds premium dry food, changing brands regularly. Her dogs look great, and have no health problems. Her rationale is that it is too difficult to provide a balanced diet, she is often home late, and the dry food suits her lifestyle.

My dogs do well on what they eat, are rarely ill, are bright eyed and bushy tailed, do small dry droppings which are easy to collect, and seem to live to a ripe old age, and mostly die of "old age" stuff, although I have lost a couple to cancer...in old age.

I couldn't be bothered arguing about food - people feed what suits them and their dogs. However, beware of people advising you to change a diet you are happy with, and also beware of vets badgering you to feed dry food which they sell. Some vets know a lot about dog nutrition, because they have made the effort to find out, but the majority don't.

Only basic nutrition is taught at Uni, and most vets are at sea when nutrition is mentioned - which is why they suggest dry food! Also, a couple of dog food reps give them lectures on the benefits of their particular food. Dry food is pretty safe, because it is balanced, but if you feed a variety of raw food, making sure you are not feeding anything which is toxic to dogs, or too much of any one thing, you wont go too far wrong.

The same applies to vitamin/mineral supplements. They are ok - but change sometimes. I feed my dogs kelp, and when it runs out, I don't buy any more for a while.

You don't need to be a dog food guru to feed them correctly. Just make sure there is plenty of variety - and do go and check Ian Billinghurst's site.

Do the research, see what suits your dog, and don't be swayed by others - unless they can prove they have the necessary expertise and experience. :rolleyes:

[Malamum]

I've been feeding my dogs raw food for about 3 years and I have no intention of switching back.

What I have trouble believing is that it's impossible to feed your dogs a nutritionally adequate diet if you don't feed them extruded pellets.

I manage to feed myself just fine by eating a wide variety of healthy foods so I don't see why it should be any different for my dogs.

[Ah Ngau]

I think whatever your pup does well on is the most important thing. I feed mainly raw but also some quality dry food with vegies, rice, sardines, yoghurt and raw eggs, this suits my dogs but I would feed whatever I felt gave them the best condition.

...

The problem for me is that what is "the best condition". I never have a dog before so I can't tell by myself. What's worse, many expert figures around me are in fact very ignorant and un-educated.

e.g. 1) A pet shop owner told me that my boy is very under weight. I explained that he is on a growth plan and I am actually controlling his weight gain very carefully to avoid possible joint problems. "Oh no, you absolutely can't do that," he said, "your boy is entering a rapid growth stage, you have to feed him as much as he eats and supplement with calcium everyday." :rolleyes:

e.g. 2) A lab breeder on hearing that my boy is on raw diet, turned my boy over and touched his belly for a moment or two. "Your boy has a lot of worms, you should fed him de-wormer every month". I said,"Wow, can you teach me how to feel for internal worms?"

"No, it is not easy, boy. I've been breeding labs for 20 years, it takes experience do feel that. BTW, buy the dewormer by Bayer, it's the best and it will clear your boy in no time. It's called D-something Plus, got that?"

"Yes, sir. I believe it's called Drontal Plus. I just fed my boy one 10 days ago."

[wolfgirl]

It sounds like you have been given lots of conflicting advice and being a new puppy owner can be a bit daunting. There are lots of wonderful people here on DOL with many many years of experience to be able to give you guidelines and ask as many questions that you want, it is better to ask and learn and no-one here minds helping people out.

As to the pet shop owner :rolleyes: this kind of advice is wrong for many reasons and I have to seriously wonder why he feels he is qualified to give such advice, can you imagine feeding a puppy as much as he wants to eat "he wouldn't stop gorging until he vomited" so please ignore this extremely damaging advice. How old is your pup and we can give you guidelines as to what amounts to feed.

Was this the breeder who you purchased your puppy from? well what can I say, she thinks she knows what she's talking about but considering you had wormed the pup 10 days before and again it is hard to judge from not knowing your pups age as to the worming schedule.

Where abouts are you i.e. what state and someone may be able to put you onto someone who could maybe check the pup out for you. Remember it is always better to keep a lab lean rather than carry any excess weight will can cause serious health issues later on in life.

[Ah Ngau]

It sounds like you have been given lots of conflicting advice and being a new puppy owner can be a bit daunting. There are lots of wonderful people here on DOL with many many years of experience to be able to give you guidelines and ask as many questions that you want, it is better to ask and learn and no-one here minds helping people out.

As to the pet shop owner :rolleyes: this kind of advice is wrong for many reasons and I have to seriously wonder why he feels he is qualified to give such advice, can you imagine feeding a puppy as much as he wants to eat "he wouldn't stop gorging until he vomited" so please ignore this extremely damaging advice. How old is your pup and we can give you guidelines as to what amounts to feed.

Was this the breeder who you purchased your puppy from? well what can I say, she thinks she knows what she's talking about but considering you had wormed the pup 10 days before and again it is hard to judge from not knowing your pups age as to the worming schedule.

Where abouts are you i.e. what state and someone may be able to put you onto someone who could maybe check the pup out for you. Remember it is always better to keep a lab lean rather than carry any excess weight will can cause serious health issues later on in life.

Relax wolfgirl,

Believe me when i said I read everything I can get my hands on. My boy is on Rhonda Hovan's Slow-Grow plan, my vet gave me the ok, so I am not worry.

As for the breeder, no, I did not buy from him. For someone to say feeling the tummy can tell whether there is worm, he is either a psychic or a fool.

Thanks for the offer. I am now in China though.

Ben

[Ah Ngau]

BTW, my boy is 3 months and 1 week old. TickerFactory is great.

[InspectorRex]

My Collies are feed on a mixture of super Premium kibble( Eagle Pack Holistic) and chicken frames. The poops are nice and formed , no farts and their coats are superb.

As others have said, whatever works best for the dog