bloss344 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Vitamin E is pretty safe. It's not actually toxic in large doses but can cause some blood problems when given in excess. It's a great antioxidant and I think beneficial. Vitamin A and D are dangerous in excess. Cod liver oil is a high source of these two vitamins and should not be used unless the dog diet definitely lacks these nutrients which is unlikely here in Australia, as D is the sunshine vitamin and a is found in liver and many vegetables. Some people unfortunately give cod liver oil instead of an omega 3 oil when looking to improve their dog's coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 (edited) bloss344 I believe the vitamin E is the value plus brand as their vitamin C definitely is. I will confirm but think it is safe to say that is the one. You are a fountain of information, thank you so much for all your help . Feeding is sooooo confusing !!! Sorry, I just checked with the produce and the brand is Stay Sound and there is no info regarding how many mg per gram of powder. I will check to see if they have a website. Edited September 5, 2006 by MyRani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I guess only guideline would be what they recomend for humans to use. Usually for a smaller dog I would give 1/2 of human dose and maybe not every day but 3-4 times a week. Sometimes its hard to transfer IU into mg or g, in fact in can be a real pain, but I have found that what is recomended for humans is not too different (especially for children) to what should be used for dogs. There are quite specific recommended amounts of vitamins and minerals for dogs. It's not really just a matter of saying a dog is half the size of a human and go from their. Their needs are different. For example an adult human RDI for calcium is about 800 - 1000 mg per day. A 25 kg dog requires around 1975mg. If you were to halve an adult dose you would only be giving 400mg. I will say I am very anal about my dog's nutrition. I posted earlier the rdi for dog's vitamin e. .5 IU/kg bodyweight and the safe upper limit at 17 IU/kg bodyweight. i.u vitamin E = 0.67 mg d-alpha tocopherol (natural source vitamin E) or 1 mg dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate (synthetic vitamin E). dl-alpha tocopheryl is only about 50% absorbable, so a 200iu capsule of the synthetic vit e yeilds only 100iu of the vitamin. Some people do prefer the synthetic form if their dog has allergies to soy, as vitamin e is often derived from soy. Calcium is very different to vitamins such as vit E. Ca for dogs changes over the age of the dog and people should be more careful. Vit E dogs get from the food as well and if you want to suplement vit E, you will see that its not too different from human. Of course, you can make it extremely difficlut and measure every mg of food that they eat, but for most things (Ca being one of the few exceptions, together with vit A) approximation is good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 [Calcium is very different to vitamins such as vit E. Ca for dogs changes over the age of the dog and people should be more careful. Vit E dogs get from the food as well and if you want to suplement vit E, you will see that its not too different from human. Of course, you can make it extremely difficlut and measure every mg of food that they eat, but for most things (Ca being one of the few exceptions, together with vit A) approximation is good enough. I used calcium as an example but could have chosen any of the essential nutrients. There are specific requirements for each vitamin, mineral, and amino acide for dogs, just as there are RDI's for people. It's up to each individual but personally I like to think that I am doing what is best for my dog, not a 'near enough is good enough' way of doing it. My dog eats a very limited diet due to food intolerances and allergies so I need to supplement accurately. He can't get all his nutrients out of his food. There is vitamin e in food however your list doesn't give us amounts and quantities. Are they per 100gr or something else? Foods that are highest in vitamin e are cereals and grains and oils perhaps something that many people would not want to feed to their dogs in excess. The diet may supply 'adequate' amounts of vitamin e but often people do want to supply some extra as an antioxidant, as there is evidence that it is beneficial. The problem with supplementing with a human dose is the variation. Some capsules have 100mg, some 200mg some 500mg. All are a safe human dose and all suggest 1 capsule a day. There's a big difference giving a small dog half of one of each of these capsules. But again as I said before, I'm very anal in what I put into my dog's mouth, and intend to give him the best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 (edited) Ok, going back to the post with all those different foods and how much vit E they contain... is that iu amount per gram? That list doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps Skipy could enlighten us. No need to be a , I forgot to put its based on 100g portions. Regardless of that its pretty obvious what foods contain most vit E. To add: if I am going to spend ages calculating how much vitamins my dog got from liver that I fed him today, vs some nuts that I gave him yesterday, if absorption of one interferes with abs of other, it would be very painful to manage feeding dogs, and that is why many people choose to feed manufactured food. I think main idea is that people know what should not be given in excess as there are few things that can be detrimental. If somebody is giving fresh food, the odds are that they are already giving sufficient amounts of everything that their dog needs. So, giving supplements (especially where range is quite big) of any amount should be more than enough. What you say about specific requitements I agree with, BUT as I said they are getting most of it from food and in this case vit E supplementation based on human consumption as far as I am concerned is quite appropriate. Edited September 5, 2006 by Skipy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I found that 1IU of vit E=1.5 mg. I hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 No need to be a , I forgot to put its based on 100g portions. Regardless of that its pretty obvious what foods contain most vit E. I didn't mean to be a but I did spend a bit of time trying to work out what the portions for the list were and was finding all sorts of different amounts. Guess I'm just a bit thick. Was just trying to clarify it for the person who asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 The staysound website is down but I did find out that the vitamin E has added Selenium. Is that appropriate to feed to dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 The staysound website is down but I did find out that the vitamin E has added Selenium. Is that appropriate to feed to dogs? Yes, Selenium is okay, but shouldn't be overdone. When you find out the actual value of vit e and selenium you'll be able to work out a dose that isn't too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Bloss344 - I went to the produce today to look at the bucket that my vitamin E came out of and there is no mention of Selenium so I seem to have got that wrong. It says that there is d-alpha tocopheryl acetate at 1600IU/40g. Is this enough information for you to be able work out how much to give in teaspoons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Bloss344 - I went to the produce today to look at the bucket that my vitamin E came out of and there is no mention of Selenium so I seem to have got that wrong. It says that there is d-alpha tocopheryl acetate at 1600IU/40g. Is this enough information for you to be able work out how much to give in teaspoons? ok, it's a horse product isn't it, very concentrated. Do you have digital kitchen scales? oh, and how much does your dog weigh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I don't have digital kitchen scales and one dog weighs 26kg and the other 22kg and growing. They get fish oil and I want to start feeding the flax seed oil, hence the need to supplement with vitamin E. Edited September 6, 2006 by MyRani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 ok, you'd probably want to aim for about 200iu each, as we don't know what the diet is actually providing, but that seems to be the standard amount to supplement for dogs up to 25kg. Large dogs can take up to 300 to 400 IU but I would err on the side of caution at the moment. I'm presuming you are feeding BARF. I give my 17kg kelpie and 26kg mixed breed 200mg each of the synthetic form. 5 grams of powder will yeild 200IU. If you haven't got scales you won't be able to measure accurately, which is probably why you wanted teaspoon measures. A lot of powders average out at 4 or 5 grams per teaspoon so if you used a scant teaspoon you'd be pretty right. If at some point you can measure it at a friends place, weigh a teaspoon of powder and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thank you Bloss344, that is pretty much what I thought. I am feeding mostly BARF with a small amount of dry for the young dog. I really appreciate your help and effort . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Glad I could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 (edited) Selenium and vitamin E are very imporant in a dogs diet...and they must work together... Edited September 7, 2006 by mickatie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Selenium and vitamin E are very imporant in a dogs diet...and they must work together... Dont they get enough selenium from meat, from what I understand they only need tiny amounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 If selenium is consumed without vitamin E, it is useless...In the same way if Non-Haem Iron is consumed by us without vitamin C... Selenium and Vit E are important for muscle growth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 If selenium is consumed without vitamin E, it is useless...In the same way if Non-Haem Iron is consumed by us without vitamin C...Selenium and Vit E are important for muscle growth... But lets say they get lots of vit E and selenium from food and then give vit E supps. that should be enough? Do you mean they need to be taken physically together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 No, but they should be in the system at roughly the same time... The quantity can greatly depend on excercise the more excercise your dog gets the more Selenium and Vit E they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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