Urgently Need Advice Re Aggressive Puppy

[Franjipani]

Hi, apologies for this long post. Wasn't sure how much to leave in or leave out. I hope someone can shed some light on my puppy’s change of behaviour. Bit of background.

He is now 18 months old and I’ve had him since he was 8 weeks. He’s a Lowchen (Little Lion Dog).

He went to puppy school and we’ve trained him since day one to let us handle his food and eat on command (he’s always been very gutsy!) and to sit before being patted, picked up, anything really. He is also used to a barf diet.

When he was 6 months old he had a rabies shot so that he could travel to the UK. I came to the UK and he sat out the six months quarantine period in Australia with my husband at home. During that time he choked several times on chicken wings and so my husband started feeding him raw chicken breasts plus hard cow bones (I hadn’t given him hard bones to chew – mainly softer bones such as lamb ribs etc) instead of wings/carcasses because he was afraid he’d choke to death (as he very nearly did a couple of times).

He came to the UK in February and adapted really well. After letting him settle down, I started him back on chicken wings but he was choking (eating too fast) and so I started mincing them whole, then I started holding them in my fist and feeding him by hand and lately chopping the wings into pieces. This has helped slow him down and now instead of trying to swallow whole pieces, he chews nicely and more slowly. However he has become quite aggressive. I tried letting him eat whole wings but he seemed confused and started guarding the bones (any other bones at that time, i.e. oxtail recreational bones, he would just leave around the place and not worry about them). He eventually started eating them but it took forever as he didn’t seem to know to hold the bone with his foot and so we tried moving his foot onto the bone to help him out – he would start growling and snapping and so we stopped.

Now, if he’s eating out of his bowl he seems fine but occasionally he will spread his meal around the place but instead of eating the pieces he will just lie down and sort of ignore them. If anyone tries to put the food back in the bowl he becomes very vicious – snapping and growling and just losing it. A few days ago he did this but I put the bones back in his bowl, however there was a piece in the hallway (where he was) and so I took him a piece of liver treat to exchange for the bone (that he wasn’t eating) and put the bone in his bowl. I then waited while he finished the treat (very small piece) and then stroked him and spoke gently and rubbed his ears and he was fine. I stood up slowly to leave and then he started growling and snapping as though he wanted to attack me. I grabbed him quickly and held him in place whilst saying ‘No’ in a deep voice. He carried on like this for quite a while and whenever he stopped I would remove one hand and then he’d start again and I’d put my hand back. Eventually he calmed down. It was quite scary. About 10 minutes later I went back to check on him (he was still in the hallway) and he growled at me for no reason.

I contacted a behaviourist and she emailed me asking if I fed him any carbohydrates as too much protein can cause this kind of aggression. I am now not sure what to do. I follow Ian Billingstone’s diet. I thought that dog aggression as a result of eating a protein-rich diet was no longer considered believed.

He had another rabies shot after one year but the vet doesn't think that this would have anything to do with his behaviour.

My apologies for this very long post – I have left a lot of stuff out. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Franjipani]

anyone?....

[KOE]

Maybe get him checked out to see if he has anything wrong medically. Have you checked what genetic issues that breed may have.

Or just put enough food in his bowl that he will eat in a sitting and dont give him guarding food such as bones.

I am probably not much help here but that is what I would do. get the vet to check his teeth just in case.

[Franjipani]

Maybe get him checked out to see if he has anything wrong medically. Have you checked what genetic issues that breed may have.

Or just put enough food in his bowl that he will eat in a sitting and dont give him guarding food such as bones.

I am probably not much help here but that is what I would do. get the vet to check his teeth just in case.

Thank you isaviz. No genetic issues to my knowledge. I do do that with the food - but on one occasion he was possessive and nasty over a stick in park so it's not just bones. His last two meals have been boiled brown rice with chicken and vegetables. I feel unhappy cooking his food as I thought I was doing the right thing following the barf diet but I'm prepared to try anything.

The only other thing that has changed recently is giving him Frontline as he had fleas a couple of months ago.

Again, any suggestions welcome.

[KOE]

Never thought of that I put one of those spot on heartwormer flea things on Oliver and he went really wierd and it looks like some sort of reaction to it, he was like that for a couple of weeks snapping at the girls and being generally different, so I just dont use any spot on products any more.

Try seeing how he goes when it wears off with out putting any more on, or he may just be a spoilt boy and wanting to be bossy is he desexed at all.

[Franjipani]

Wish I'd thought about that before... I gave him another dose of frontline yesterday and that will last for 6 weeks.

Yes he's desexed - done when he was six months old.

I know that adolescent dogs often go through an aggressive stage but this isn't what I would have expected. I thought there would be some warning growling but it's really quite sudden and savage and scary but luckily he doesn't do it too often. He goes from being a sweet soppy little thing to a feral animal. When you read descriptions of Lowchens it's usually along the lines of them having a sweet expression but my little one looks more haughty than sweet.

[Kavik]

I think all your fiddling with his food hasn't helped.

[KOE]

Has he only done it since the spot on, if so dont use it and see how he goes.

best of luck Frang

[Franjipani]

Kavik, the 'fiddling with the food' is over a longish period and as a result of reading and asking people for advice. I am not thoughtlessly 'fiddling' ... and apart from this recent behaviour change, he is a very affectionate, playful and ditzy puppy who is much loved.

Thank you Isaviz, I will keep an eye on the Frontline. In Australia I didn't use commercial preparations and made my own that worked a treat but the recent infestation was pretty bad, not just my dog, and so thought f/l would really blitz them (as it did). Fingers crossed and appreciate your input.

[Kavik]

I didn't mean changing his food, I mean the handling of his food, hand feeding, taking away, moving around etc

Didn't mean to offend

ETA: The only time I have had problems with Diesel is when he had a piece of towel stuck to his chicken frame and I had to get it off him to prevent him from eating the towel.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Kavik

[Franjipani]

I didn't mean changing his food, I mean the handling of his food, hand feeding, taking away, moving around etc

Didn't mean to offend

Thank you Kavik - sorry if I jumped to conclusions. My post was a bit on the long side and perhaps I didn't express myself clearly.

The hand feeding was suggested (and I'd also read about it) so that my puppy would slow down and stop trying to swallow big chunks of food. It was quite worrying when he'd keel over and look as if he was passing out.

The hand feeding did slow him down and he now chews his food. However because he started getting aggressive when given a whole chicken wing and/or leaving it around the room and guarding it, we started to chop up the wing into about 4 pieces as he will usually eat these from the bowl and not distribute them. Recently however he has spread them around the room and won't let anyone put them back in his bowl (even though he's not eating them).

Advised that high protein diet (i.e. barf) can make dogs aggressive, hence the considering changing diet.

I never had any problems related to food with my children!

[Steve]

I think you will find that he is seeing you as part of his pack and so therefore he is behaving with you over his food the way he would if you were another dog taking his food .

one of the things I advise people who take my pups home is to feed small portions and if they eat it all add some more but anything they havent eaten in say 15 mins is removed.

This helps them to understand that if they dont eat it quick its gone and prevents much of the issues you're seeing now.

At 18 months he only needs one feed per day and if he is on the Billinghurst diet he can easily go without food now for a day at a time .

There are also various things you can do to take charge at feed time which I dont have time to talk about just now but feeding hime small amounts and not allowing him to store it away for later and also feeding him in one place is a good start.

[Cordelia]

Hi there,

Advised that high protein diet (i.e. barf) can make dogs aggressive, hence the considering changing diet.

His behaviour has nothing to do with protein in his diet or anything else he is being fed.

Look carefully at what you have written.....

I started him back on chicken wings but he was choking (eating too fast) and so I started mincing them whole, then I started holding them in my fist and feeding him by hand and lately chopping the wings into pieces.

Hand feeding him like a servant does his master.

I tried letting him eat whole wings but he seemed confused and started guarding the bones (any other bones at that time, i.e. oxtail recreational bones, he would just leave around the place and not worry about them).

Ahhh but chicken is the prized food! Tastes a whole lot better and requires little work to eat... unlike his chompy bones that take ages and he doesn't care anywhere near as much about them.... mainly because you aren't trying to touch them.

He eventually started eating them but it took forever as he didn’t seem to know to hold the bone with his foot and so we tried moving his foot onto the bone to help him out – he would start growling and snapping and so we stopped.

As the dominant member of the pack... he got exactly the desired response!! He didn't know you were helping move his foot... he thought you were going to take his prized fod away... he growled..... you left him alone.... HE WINS! He just proved to himself he was the boss!

Now, if he’s eating out of his bowl he seems fine but occasionally he will spread his meal around the place but instead of eating the pieces he will just lie down and sort of ignore them. If anyone tries to put the food back in the bowl he becomes very vicious – snapping and growling and just losing it.

He is ALLOWED to spread his food about as though he owns the place..... further telling him that he is king of the house... allowed to do as he pleases. He has had his food aggression inadvertantly re-inforced by your family.

I then waited while he finished the treat (very small piece) and then stroked him and spoke gently and rubbed his ears and he was fine. I stood up slowly to leave and then he started growling and snapping as though he wanted to attack me. I grabbed him quickly and held him in place whilst saying ‘No’ in a deep voice. He carried on like this for quite a while and whenever he stopped I would remove one hand and then he’d start again and I’d put my hand back. Eventually he calmed down. It was quite scary. About 10 minutes later I went back to check on him (he was still in the hallway) and he growled at me for no reason.

He had a reason..... he was telling you again that he is boss.... bet you didn't pick him up again. He won another round.

I contacted a behaviourist and she emailed me asking if I fed him any carbohydrates as too much protein can cause this kind of aggression.

Sorry but that is crap.

I thought that dog aggression as a result of eating a protein-rich diet was no longer considered believed.

He has developed food/possession aggression due to your actions in the past.... he is NOT 'aggrssive' per se. has nothing whatsoever to do with protein.

I know that adolescent dogs often go through an aggressive stage but this isn't what I would have expected. I thought there would be some warning growling but it's really quite sudden and savage and scary but luckily he doesn't do it too often. He goes from being a sweet soppy little thing to a feral animal. When you read descriptions of Lowchens it's usually along the lines of them having a sweet expression but my little one looks more haughty than sweet.

I've had dealings with a few Lowchens and I would say that they can be quite a dominant breed and when any dominant dog is not kept in their 'place', problems will arise.... exactly as you are experiencing.

He has learnt that growling and carrying on like a feral gets the fastest and most effective result.... you leaving him alone with his food/whatever else it is he has.

Make no mistake, he will up the ante as long as he feels he will win... someone WILL get bitten if you don't stop the behaviour now.

He needs to lose his privilages so he is reminded that he is NOT top dog in the family (which is his current status).

Start from scratch with re-training.... if he wants anything at all, he must work for it. Make him sit before any attention, feeding etc.

Stop all bones until he knows his place. Give him food that is less appealing.

Put it down.... leave it for 10mins... if he hasn't eaten all of it, put it away or throw it out and don't feed him again until his usual next meal time. He won't starve.

Put his favourite toys away and only get them out when YOU want to play.... they are now YOUR toys, not his. You are allowing him to play with you... once the game is over, put them away again.

Check out these links... Steve is a trainer/behaviourist in Sydney and has helped numerous people here.

NILIF - Nothing in Life is Free

Triangle of Temptation

Good luck.

[poodlefan]

I agree totally with Cordelia. This is CLASSIC resource guarding behaviour. Unfortunately, all the fussing over his feeding may have increased his anxiety about keeping his food. Cordy is right, every time he growled and you backed off you taught him that growling works! Push the envelope and he may bite you.

Step 1: Stop thinking of this dog as a "puppy" - he's actually on the far side of adolescence. Rather than thinking of him as a baby, think of him as a 16 year old boy who is tellng you "you're not the boss of ME".

Obedience training (to reinforce your status as leader) will help with this issue. Personally, I'd be looking for a behavioralist familiar with resource guarding issues and who will look at your relationship with the dog rather than his diet.

[~Anne~]

poodlefan and Cordy!

[flycow]

thanks codelia for the links, very informative articles.

[Steve]

Yep I agree. Cordy is on the ball.

[Franjipani]

Hi Cordelia, Steve, thank you very much for your help and advice.

However, I'm not convinced that he does consider himself the alpha dog (well maybe lately?). I know from my posts it could look like that but this aggressive behaviour is only recent and happens out of the blue and not at every meal time (we may be talking about half a dozen incidents or thereabouts.) He will move out of the way when any of us walk past him (even if he was asleep). If he wants to be petted or have his ball thrown to him, he knows he has to sit. He has to wait for the command before he eats. He isn't allowed on the beds and can only sit on the furniture by invitation (although we have become a bit lax about this since he came over to the UK - we were just so happy to see him and guess we spoilt him a bit!). He sits for every treat and walks to heel. Since we've had him we have been careful to instil in him his place in the pack i.e. the bottom. He usually eats his meal from the bowl (until I was feeding him the wings by hand to try and slow him down) and this spreading his cut up bones is rare and again only recently.

Okay, I will certainly start following all your advice and taking away his toys etc that I have allowed him free access to. I'm relieved about the protein issue because I felt good about feeding him a barf diet. I can see that hand feeding him the wings would give him the impression I was pandering to him - this way of feeding was suggested by a lowchen breeder to slow his eating down and to that end it worked although obviously brought up other issues.

Despite everything I've obviously gone wrong somewhere and so again will follow all the helpful advice given.

Finally, do you think there could be some reaction to the Frontline?

Thanks again.

[Cordelia]

Finally, do you think there could be some reaction to the Frontline?

No. Usually a reaction if any will be a localised resction and would not induce the behaviour you've described.

However, I'm not convinced that he does consider himself the alpha dog (well maybe lately?). I know from my posts it could look like that but this aggressive behaviour is only recent and happens out of the blue and not at every meal time

You're making excuses for him. He is upping the ante gradually.

Glad you'll take on board advice though. If you already have basic obedience down pat then you should see a change in his behaviour quite quickly.

Good luck. :p

[KitKat]

What Cordy said :p