Early Desexing - Warning To Breeders

[hortfurball]

Any breeder of large dogs is only responsible if they are determined to give their pups the best possible start in life - health and new owners.

Desexing at 8 weeks is NOT healthy - there are far too many adverse effects.

To Neuter or Not

Tubal ligation, hysterectomy and vasectomy are all surgical sterilisation options open to breeders who are concerned about selling to possible puppy mills, backyard breeders or irresponsible dog owners. If they prefer to damage the pup's longterm health rather than take such risks they have not done their homework.

Surely the possibility (and not a necessity) of two separate surgeries a couple of years apart are preferable to the increased risks of cancer, cruciate ligament ruptures, spay incontinence or what this poor akita is suffering?

No crystal ball is needed to know that adverse health effects from early desexing are far more common than we realise - the internet is a wonderful tool for doing research on canine health topics.

Sorry to resurrect another old thread, but regarding the bolded bit, I was just reading another thread in which it was pointed out that putting a dog under anaesthesia comes with it's own risks. Have to wonder if the suggestion to do this twice is really any safer than early desexing.

On the point of early desexing, someone said they dreaded the idea of a law coming in for mandatory desexing at 12 weeks of age. An idea has been slowly forming in my head (no doubt discussed before but I haven't read it) that it might not be a bad thing if a law came in banning the sale of pups (and kittens for that matter) under 12 weeks of age. This would certainly help reduce 'impulse' buys in pet shops, and from the sounds of it wouldn't affect most responsible breeders who home their pups at a later age anyway. Pups are still cute at 12 weeks, just not the fluff bundles that entice impulse buys.

This would also ensure no further necessity to desex as young as 8 weeks.

Just an idea.

[centitout]

What's the right thing?

Desexing at 8 weeks was not the right thing for this pup! Why didn't the breeder do the research into the effects of extremely early desexing on large breeds and ask her vet for options? Tubes tied? Or vasectomised in the case of a male? But of course this is more expensive, so the breeder chooses the cheaper and easier option, at the expense of the pup.

If more breeders demanded surgical sterilisation without stopping hormone production, there would be fewer cases like this Akita. It is up to us to educate the vets, who simply don't understand the dangers of standard desexing.

sorry-but none of the owners of my pups wanted them sterilised-it means 2 major ops and they still have the hassle of seasons.i have a desexing rebate on mine if done no later than 6 mths,i saw my first neo mastiff cross bloodhounds the other week ,3 going to the same person.i will desex mine at 12 weeks next time,if they have a small penis,so what?will the other dogs make fun of them at the pissing tree? my bitch used to suffer from vaginitis a lot and she was undesexed.i had her desexed at 4 -and she still gets infections.this akita could well have been a bitch that was going to have problems anyway,it does happen.

[centitout]

Why not, if they want to desex their pups, wait until the pup is 16 weeks old before desexing/rehoming it?

Danes can have up to 10 or more in a litter..... imagine 12 x 20kg 16wk old Dane babies. As gorgeous as that image is....... now Imagine a breeder trying to feed, socialise, train and mange WELL that many juvenile giant pups until 16wks of age . It wouldn't be good for the pups OR the breeder on several levels!

Holding til 10wks is a fine idea though for desexing.

i had 12 ,14 week bloodhounds here as people would not buy them with a desexing rebate-they wanted them entire as pets so they could breed later on.my credit card is fully booked out again due to the costs of having this litter,but nothing will go unless they are going to be desexed.even feeding time becomes world war 3-and lead training 12 pups,socialising,vets etc-i still have not recovered!!.

[centitout]

Do you want a male that humps everything that moves

Most serial "humpers" are dogs that were desexed as puppies, that were not given the chance to outgrow the normal puppy phase of humping. I have NEVER had an adult intact male do this, but I have seen hundreds of desexed males that do.

mean if you want your pup fully devolpe you would have to wait till it reached 6mo or age and do you know how many promblems and unwanted puppies and temps this would caused

The large breeds I was talking about here do not develop until after 12 or 18 months, so there is no way they would be producing puppies at 6 mths!

still NOT GROW TO PROPER SIZE!!!!!

Who was talking about proper size? I was talking about abnormal development of genitalia. However, there are serious ramifications with cancer etc, that people never attribute ot early desexing, because they all believe current opinion which says that desexing prevents cancer. It only prevents cancer in the bits that are removed, and mammary cancer - every other cancer is increased.

the undesexed chi i have is a serial humper-11 mths old.the undesexed female bloodhounds hump everything in sight when in season-it becomes pornographic at times and i have a 10 mth old male that could produce pups now.i have had bloodhounds come into season at 6 mths-9 mths is normal and the sire of the litter mated a poodle at 9 mths ( no i didnt own him then-he was returned to breeder for serial "mating"offences.

[morgan]

Yes, I have a couple of girls that become serious humpers when in season - doesn't bother me as they are obviously enjoying themselves and it's only a few weeks a year

I also have a 13 mth old male that attempts to jump on every female, but is quickly put in his place and is learning that this is not acceptable behaviour. He did go through a stage of trying to constantly hump a male whippet when he was younger but thankfully grew out of that the moment he met a girl in season. He now knows which gender is which

If you look at my post, I did say "most" not all

Centitout - I sympathise with your problem of breeding a breed that has very large litters when it is so difficult to find suitable pet homes. This is why so many breeders in your position either cull litters or let the weaklings die without going to heroic measures to save them. They know that they cannot manage the financial stress and extra work required that can occur as a result of being left with unsaleable pups that quickly eat them out of house and home. If they can't bring themselves to cull, or have to save every single puppy in a litter no matter what, they might only breed a single litter once every few years, so that they have time to find suitable homes for the unsold pups as adults - this can take years.

Having a breed that is difficult to find suitable homes for myself, I have always spaced litters so that I have the time and money to raise unhomed pups and look after them until a suitable home does turn up. Naturally the costs incurred are never recouped, but I do this because I love them. I have also culled weaklings in large litters to maximise the health of the other pups and so as not to totally drain the dam. I don't like supplementary feeding with artificial formula unless absolutely essential - doing this because there are more than ten pups is not on for me. Of course others feel differently - but then they have the option of keeping more mouths to feed for a lot, lot longer.

Obviously you don't want your pups to be bred from, so can you find homes for your pups if they are desexed? If people only want them for breeding, not pets, surely it doesn't make any difference whether they are sold desexed early or with contracts - there just aren't suitable homes for them, which is the risk you run with breeding, so you cop it on the chin and keep them. Good, suitable homes for them as desexed adults always turn up eventually. Naturally this option is very difficult if you raise two very large litters at the same time.