my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Had to take a kitten to my vet tonight, so thought I'd speak to him about these options. He was aghast that I would even consider putting puppies through this!When I explained that it wasn't for me, but for those that feel "responsible" breeders must desex at 8 weeks to prevent entire puppies falling into the wrong hands, he hit the roof! Wanted to know who the hell was so irresponsible that they could even think about desexing a puppy before 6 mths of age! His attitude was that if anyone was so unsure of the quality of ownership the puppy was going to, then they shouldn't be breeding anyway. He then expressed disgust at the current AVA push to make early desexing mandatory, as well as rescue organisations doing it to very young puppies - said it was simply criminal, and that he would never perform any kind of desexing or sterilisation procedures on anything younger than 6 mths. So, no info from him! Vets :p Theirs soooo laughable!!!!! Id like to point out that MY vets tells everyone to get their pups desexed as possible even the humane socitey desexs at 8 weeks....but your right its down right awful that people care that much about dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Put puppy thru it? within two hours or so the little blighters are up running around and into everything as if nothing had happened!Mind you i had my 6 month old male large breed done and he wasn't himself for about 24 hours! Not to mention having to keep him away from his stitches for the two weeks or whatever it was! As to being 'criminal' - that's a lot of rot...many vets won't do early desexing because they don't like to. I've even known vets to say bitches should be allowed their first season before being desexed, others even saying that bitches should be allowed a litter before being desexed! That last one to me is more criminal! Please NEVER go back to the vet that told you to breed the bitch before you desex...hes a TWIT! If you breed bitches on there first season then the puppies will take all her nutrition and she will never grow the the right size.....even breeders refuse to allow their bitched to be breed on the first season....and down the road all I can see is BYB coming from that vet office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Vets :p Theirs soooo laughable!!!!!Id like to point out that MY vets tells everyone to get their pups desexed as possible even the humane socitey desexs at 8 weeks....but your right its down right awful that people care that much about dogs My Vet encourages ALL pet owners to desex their Pets, but not as baby puppies. There are many Vets with the same stand. Doesn't mean they care any less. And we do not have a higher rate of unwanted litters because of it. Despite what some would have you believe there actually owners with enough smarts to handle an entire animal. Being a RESPONSIBLE owner or Breeder means making eduacated choices and doing what is right for your animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 My Vet encourages ALL pet owners to desex their Pets, but not as baby puppies.There are many Vets with the same stand. Doesn't mean they care any less. I agree. There ARE still many vet who won't desex under 14wks of age and that is entirely their choice. But saying early desexing is criminal is way OTT. And we do not have a higher rate of unwanted litters because of it. Maybe not where you live Nadia. Here however, we ARE seeing a dramatic increase in the number of unwanted litters and people not being able to get rid of pups. Despite what some would have you believe there actually owners with enough smarts to handle an entire animal. True. Unfortunately, there isn't ENOUGH of those owners...... otherwise Rescue wouldn't get calls to take pups or have to rescue litters from the pounds on a constant basis. Being a RESPONSIBLE owner or Breeder means making eduacated choices and doing what is right for your animals. And being a Responsible Rescue means early desexing and removing that choice to breed from people who have no idea but are great owners in every other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 And being a Responsible Rescue means early desexing and removing that choice to breed from people who have no idea but are great owners in every other way. Exactly !!!!! It is sad this pup in the OP suffered complications, but any surgery has risks. Gosh when my daughter had her tonsils and adenoids out I was told the most serious risk was DEATH I was bloody terrified taking her in, but knew the risk for a healthy child was extremely minimal, and the effects of not having the surgery were going to be high and ongoing reduction in her quality of life. Same with puppies, the risk of complications of early desexing are far lower than the risks of leaving a pet dog entire. Even as a responsible owner I know I can keep my dog IN, but can I keep other dogs OUT ? An accomplished digger or fence scaler could easily get into my yard, where there is a willy there is a way Also I would HATE to have a poor entire male surrounded by neighbours entire bitches trying to get out to do what nature is telling him to do every time he caught a whiff of a bitch in season Only registered breeders with the knowledge and intent to breed should have entire dogs or cats. There are probably many thousands of dogs out there who have been desexed early by rescues, responsible breeders, pounds, RSPCA. If there was a high risk of problems with these dogs we would be hearing a lot about it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Well.... er...... I am against blanket desexing of ALL companion dogs. I am in favour of surgical sterilisation, followed up by later desexing only where absolutely necessary - for instance where pet owners are incapable of keeping their dogs on their properties, or with multi dog aggression issues (bearing in mind that desexing doesn't necessarily cure these problems) :p ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Well.... er...... I am against blanket desexing of ALL companion dogs. I am in favour of surgical sterilisation, followed up by later desexing only where absolutely necessary - for instance where pet owners are incapable of keeping their dogs on their properties, or with multi dog aggression issues (bearing in mind that desexing doesn't necessarily cure these problems) :p ;) Yep, rescue is going to pay for sterilisation, then get someone to adopt the dog to then have to pay for desexing when it could of been done in the first place ;) Come and live on the rescues side of the fence, walking past the rows and rows of puppies and dogs and knowing that you have no room for any of them Believe what you like but the only way to stop the over populaiton of dogs in AUS is early desexing, simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Well.... er...... I am against blanket desexing of ALL companion dogs. I am in favour of surgical sterilisation, followed up by later desexing only where absolutely necessary - for instance where pet owners are incapable of keeping their dogs on their properties, or with multi dog aggression issues (bearing in mind that desexing doesn't necessarily cure these problems) So - for dogs that will be ultimately desexed they need to go through not one, but two surgical procedures? Doesn't this then increase the risk of complications related to surgery for these dogs? Wouldn't it be far better to only prepare the dog once for surgery? Strange logic....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) Well.... er...... I am against blanket desexing of ALL companion dogs. I am in favour of surgical sterilisation, followed up by later desexing only where absolutely necessary - for instance where pet owners are incapable of keeping their dogs on their properties, or with multi dog aggression issues (bearing in mind that desexing doesn't necessarily cure these problems) :p ;) Yep, rescue is going to pay for sterilisation, then get someone to adopt the dog to then have to pay for desexing when it could of been done in the first place ;) Come and live on the rescues side of the fence, walking past the rows and rows of puppies and dogs and knowing that you have no room for any of them Believe what you like but the only way to stop the over populaiton of dogs in AUS is early desexing, simple The promblem is they are not opening their eyes and looking at the big picture For those who think desexing a dog/ bitch is wrong then one day when you get enough nerve go to a kill shelter and look into all those 6week old puppies eyes and KNOW that they will be PTS with in the next few days all because some moron didnt desex their dog... Edited August 24, 2006 by my_sibe_owns_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdog Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) - Edited February 26, 2008 by silverdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 silverdog - these are two different issues. How can you compare BSL with a discussion about desexing? One is a debate on the pros and cons of desexing and the other is LEGISLATION preventing people from exercising a democratic right to own the breed of dog of their choice. There is no comparison I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 For those who think desexing a dog/ bitch is wrong then one day when you get enough nerve go to a kill shelter and look into all those 6week old puppies eyes and KNOW that they will be PTS with in the next few days all because some moron didnt desex their dog... NO, the poor pupy will be PTS because that moron did not know how to take care of his dog so that unwanted pregnancies dont happen. If you also go to the original post you will see that that person wanted to wait until the pup is mature and then desex her, but the breeder did not allow it. If you are that unsure about people that you sell your dogs to that you should not sell the dogs to them, its as simple as that. Quote: So - for dogs that will be ultimately desexed they need to go through not one, but two surgical procedures? Doesn't this then increase the risk of complications related to surgery for these dogs? Wouldn't it be far better to only prepare the dog once for surgery? Strange logic....... I wonder if people are reading whole posts or just bits that they take out of context so that they can respond to them. Quote:I am in favour of surgical sterilisation, followed up by later desexing only where absolutely necessary - for instance where pet owners are incapable of keeping their dogs on their properties, or with multi dog aggression issues (bearing in mind that desexing doesn't necessarily cure these problems). Many people think that if vet is willing to do it, of course its healthy for thier dog. If people knew all pros and cons of desexing, especially early desexing, many of them would think twice about doing it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Silverdog, I like it. Do you think I would be shot on the street by "responsible" owners if I had the same anti-desexing T shirt as we are getting for BSL. Ha, ha...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry cannot agree with you on that one There is a big difference between BSL and early desexing, please note though I am totally against BSL and do what I can for the dogs affected BSL is not the topic of discussion, it has nothing to do with early desexing and I am sorry but not all people who let their bitch have a litter is a drop kick, some are yes. But alot that call up have accidental matings, and when you inform them of the numbers of dogs PTS every year they are horrified and guilty. They get the bitch desexed straight away Desexing is the only way that I can see a way of making a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 So - for dogs that will be ultimately desexed they need to go through not one, but two surgical procedures? Doesn't this then increase the risk of complications related to surgery for these dogs? Wouldn't it be far better to only prepare the dog once for surgery? Strange logic.......[/i] I wonder if people are reading whole posts or just bits that they take out of context so that they can respond to them. Out of context? It appears you have issues with comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Skipy do you rescue????funny how no one is answering the question, or are you and the other that are against early desexing also x breed haters?? Yes the idiot who let his bitch have a litter is responsible, but it is far easier to desex the dogs than educate the fools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) Skipy have you ever sold a puppy before? Because if you have you knw its damn scarry and all you learn is people are UNTURSTWORTHY!!! In fact the people we believe would be best for our pups somthimes happened to be the worse... I what would happen if our prefect girl was to small for breeding and we had to sell her to a pet home with a contract/promies of her being desexed to find out once she 'matured' she was poping DD out left and righ? I dont trust people and would much rather a dog NEVER to come into heat OR hit 4 mo of age with out being desexed....JMHO And BSL is a hole DIFFERNT can of worms....its pure foolishness to try and wrap the two together peibe- Edited August 24, 2006 by my_sibe_owns_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 So - for dogs that will be ultimately desexed they need to go through not one, but two surgical procedures? Doesn't this then increase the risk of complications related to surgery for these dogs? Wouldn't it be far better to only prepare the dog once for surgery? Strange logic....... [/i] I wonder if people are reading whole posts or just bits that they take out of context so that they can respond to them. Out of context? It appears you have issues with comprehension. Again, you took it out of context because I highlighted the part where morgan said in which case a dog would undergo second surgery ie. in very rare circumstances. When person is not educated about something they take whatever info they are given, which is usually by the breeder and think that of course desexing has no side effects at all. When in fact, I would guarantee if they knew ALL the pros and cons of desexing, majority would be more than happy with sterilization alone. Most female dog owners are worried about male getting into their yard to get to female. And of course they get "well if you desex them you remove that possibility". None will get "well if you sterilize you will remove that possibility, PLUS, your dog will have the benefits of necessary hormones". my_sibe_owns_me - sterilization (which I am all for) will remove that problem of issues with the pup being bred afterwards. The whole point is that: 1. BYERS should know the WHOLE truth when getting a pup from breeder 2. Sterilization removes the fear that breeders have about thier pup being abused later down the track Finally I am mainly annoyed because good owners, such as the owner if akita in question have to suffer because they are not given a fair option for their dogs that they will take care for the rest of their lives. I dont do rescue and I am sure that you have seen many sad stories in your time of rescuing, but the fact that there is a better option for those pups has nothing to do with whether a dog is being resuce or not. You want to preven unwanted breedings, sterilization does that, I dont see the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I don't breed and I don't rescue. I'm not a fan of early desexing and would never want a dog or bitch that had been desexed at 8 weeks. The impact on physical development is still too much of an unknown. HOWEVER, IF I did breed or rescue I'd imagine my view would be different. Early desexing is a risk management decision. If I bred CKCS or a similar in demand breed for BYBs and millers, I'd be balancing my ability to vet a good responsible home against ensuring that no pet pup I sold would ever end up in a puppy mill or churning out litters for a BYB. Knowing how some peoplel would lie cheat or steal to get their hands on such pups, I'd be looking hard at early desexing. Yet another reason why I'll never breed dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I did not think you did rescue then you would not be sitting on your high horse dictating on what you feel is right Rescue do not have the resources or finances to do what you propose, we pick up the discarded dogs that their breeders (and a hell of alot of BYB purebreeds recently) now where did these dogs come from? Registered Breeder who did not desex or sterilise, but sold for profit Are you going to donate the money needed to fund this sterilisation campaign that you feel is so necessary? Who will, as rescue is now we have no choice but to desex I wish all breeders felt the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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