morgan Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Met a friend's gorgeous Akita pup this morning - lovely type and nature, absolutely gorgeous pup, which her proud owner had waited ages for. The pup's "responsible" breeder, insisted on desexing her at 8 weeks, prior to leaving home. My friend's vet wrote a letter, asking for this to be delayed to let the bitch mature a little first, and a desexing contract was offered, but to no avail. She was desexed. In the months since then, the poor pup's vulva has not grown and developed normally, and the constant pooling of urine has caused an ongoing maintenance nightmare, with infections, vet trips and constant cleaning after every time the bitch pees. Which of course can't be done when the owner is at work. The pup has been in constant distress at the smell and discomfort, as has the owner, not to mention the embarrassment whenever the pup has rolled on her back for a tummy rub from friends, revealing unsightly, smelly genitalia. Certainly hope that this breeder is pleased with destroying the quality of life for this poor girl - understand that as it was an interstate sale, she couldn't be sure that the new owner was totally responsible, but why not do a refund on provision of a desexing certificate, or just do a hysterectomy, leaving the essential hormones intact? Any breeder that desexes such a large breed as an Akita at 8 weeks should not be breeding IMO - they certainly don't care about their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Poor baby. The problem is that many other large breed breeders do it because many vets say that its OK. God forbid that somebody actually promotes later desexing or histerectomy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Morgan, There are many opinions on early desexing. The example you have spoken of above is not common. I guess it is up to the individual to decide on the pros and cons. I for one have no hesitation about puppies being desexed and am all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Morgan,There are many opinions on early desexing. The example you have spoken of above is not common. I guess it is up to the individual to decide on the pros and cons. I for one have no hesitation about puppies being desexed and am all for it. Lack of development of genitalia in large breeds is the usual outcome of very early desexing, in males and females - just doesn't always cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Its such a tough call though. I mean, whats to stop your pups ending up in the hands of a BYB, or god forbid, a puppy farm? Believe me it happens - the majority of purebred dogs at the puppy farm I dealt with came from registered, reputable breeders who have no idea what has happened to their precious puppies. The PF owner actually told me that she lies and tells breeders about the wonderful home they will have with her. Unfortunately, early desexing is the only way to ensure your pups don't end up this way. I have never heard of hyster's being done on dogs? Do vets actually do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Remember there are thousands of early spays with no issues out there & aslong as people cant be trusted whether it be via rescue,breeders it will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Its such a tough call though. I mean, whats to stop your pups ending up in the hands of a BYB, or god forbid, a puppy farm? Believe me it happens - the majority of purebred dogs at the puppy farm I dealt with came from registered, reputable breeders who have no idea what has happened to their precious puppies. The PF owner actually told me that she lies and tells breeders about the wonderful home they will have with her. Unfortunately, early desexing is the only way to ensure your pups don't end up this way.I have never heard of hyster's being done on dogs? Do vets actually do it? Vets should be able to do it if you request it. I think its just easier for them to pull everything out. When people say early desexing is being done with no problems at all, how do they know. This might be one of the more dramatinc effect of what can happen, but how about all the other, more subtile effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 What a sad story. I don't think you can blame the breeder though.... there are pros and cons of either desexing or not, and the breeder made the decision on what she thought was best. I just hope there isn't a mandatory law being passed saying that all dogs need to be desexed before 12wks of age etc..... that would not be pretty. I think it is up to the breeder to decide, but as Kirty pointed out - it seems you can't win either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Vets can definitely tie tubes - have heard of a few bitches that have had this. This at least will keep them pregnancy free until they can be desexed at maturity if the owner wishes. There is a new procedure being done where some ovarian tissue is spliced under the skin after desexing so that there is still a small amount of oestrogen being secreted to try to prevent spay incontinence. Don't know if there would be enough hormones to allow normal development from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think the breeder was being responsible and I wish more would follow in her footsteps I just think that maybe the vet should of been more experienced Poor puppy though, is there anything they can do to help her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 I think the breeder was being responsible and I wish more would follow in her footstepsI just think that maybe the vet should of been more experienced Poor puppy though, is there anything they can do to help her? The vet's experience has absolutely nothing to do with the puppy's condition. The vet did an ovariohysterectomy - removal of the ovaries stops the manufacture of oestrogen. Without the oestrogen being present for the physical growth of the puppy, her normal development ceased the moment those ovaries were removed. She has been left with an immature vulva, and will always have the vulva of a puppy, even when she is adult - the same thing happens with large breed males - their penis never achieves normal appearance and size, which can look really silly on a great dane for instance! She will have problems for the rest of her life, and no amount of artificial hormones will make up for her lack of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I can understand where you are coming from, and I realise just how bad this is for the puppy But if all puppies where desexed before rehoming it would stop alot of dogs being PTS I do not like desexing puppies that young, 16 weeks to me is the youngest a pup should be done and there is no way I would buy a 8 week old desexed pup. Just my preference This case is an exception though, far more successes I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Hi There I consider the breeder did everything right - as it has been said before to many end up in the hands of BYB's and to be honest our breed has not yet been exploited by them and i know most breeders in Aus are very conscious of preventing it - the last thing Australia needs is a DD with Akita in the mix they can be difficult and stubborn at the best of times when well bred. Desexing is a major operation - and should not be taken lightly, as always i'm sure there are a minority that come out of it badly. I know my breeder would never let a pup go without desexing however i do believe she waits until 16 weeks+ but i think thats more to do with she never knows what she wants to keep!! Whilst this is a terrible situation - please dont blame the breeder what about all the bitches and pups of inbreeding and X breeding that have terrible problems - i think preventing irresponsible breeding is a bigger problem. If this is a serious problem i'm sure the breeder would replace the pup, most are very understanding about such circumstances - and find a special home for her, i know this doesnt help the pup or the family who currently own her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (edited) Everytime partial desexing is mentioned, its like most people are blind to it....... To add: I dont think its breeders fault, I do however think its vets fault, any that agree to fully desex pups before 6 months of age. They should know the concequences of these procedures..... Edited August 22, 2006 by Skipy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Poor baby! I've seen the same in 2 large breed bitch puppies. I'm sure the breeder was doing what they considered to be the responsible thing, with their Vets support. I could never do it to such a young puppy though, my Vet refuses anyway. Breeders really are being put between a rock and a hard place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Any breeder that desexes such a large breed as an Akita at 8 weeks should not be breeding IMO - they certainly don't care about their dogs. What crap! They OBVIOUSLY care about their bitches being exploited by BYB etc. She has been left with an immature vulva, and will always have the vulva of a puppy, even when she is adult - the same thing happens with large breed males - their penis never achieves normal appearance and size, which can look really silly on a great dane for instance! Most 'normal' people don't spend much time looking at their dogs genitalia. Who cares if pet Dane has a small doodle :D Not like he's going to be using for anything other than piddling! Is he going to go out and buy a Porshe due to penis envy??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Any breeder that desexes such a large breed as an Akita at 8 weeks should not be breeding IMO - they certainly don't care about their dogs. What crap! They OBVIOUSLY care about their bitches being exploited by BYB etc. She has been left with an immature vulva, and will always have the vulva of a puppy, even when she is adult - the same thing happens with large breed males - their penis never achieves normal appearance and size, which can look really silly on a great dane for instance! Most 'normal' people don't spend much time looking at their dogs genitalia. Who cares if pet Dane has a small doodle :D Not like he's going to be using for anything other than piddling! Is he going to go out and buy a Porshe due to penis envy??? Sorry, not to be rude but I think you are missing a point. This dog has recurring infections, pees everywhere in the house, causes stress to itself and to others and you find this funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 For those 2 quote Jacq you are right lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitKat Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 A lot can depend on if the bitch has an 'inny' or an 'outy'. I believe there was some info floating around that girls with inny's should be left till after their first season to be desexed as their vulva will have increased and so shouldn't have the same problem. But it didn't rule the problem out all together. Not only that tho...hundreds of baby bitches are desexed every day (breeds/rescue/etc) across the country... i would think it would only be a small percentage of pups having these problems else i doubt it would happen as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 How old is this Akita pup now??? Sorry, not to be rude but I think you are missing a point. No I'm not. Certain people like to make out that early desexing has disasterous results for the entire species and frighten others into thinking they made the wrong choice for their pet or that those who agree with it don't care for their pets. Sorry, but I take offence at the accusation that this Akita breeder and others who advocate early desexing don't care for our animals. Not only that tho...hundreds of baby bitches are desexed every day (breeds/rescue/etc) across the country... i would think it would only be a small percentage of pups having these problems else i doubt it would happen as often. A very small percentage. My Gen (giant breed) has an inverted vulva (not so bad nowadays) and was desexed early. She occasionally gets vaginitis (about once a year) that is easily treated and causes her mild discomfort for a day. not to mention the embarrassment whenever the pup has rolled on her back for a tummy rub from friends, revealing unsightly, smelly genitalia. Tell the friends to stop looking at her vagina. Simple. IF it is as bad as you say.... why has the vet not mentioned a resection of the skin around her vulva?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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