Some Questions: Situation Specific Anxiety

[Tralee]

Hi All.

My dog is 'normal' in all respects but is going through adolescence.

He has become anxious in just one specific situation.

I am seeking information from anyone who has worked with Dr. Kersti Seksel or Dr. Robert Holmes in a similar situation as mine.

Also, I would like to hear from any others who have used clomicalm for anxiety in dogs.

I am only able to access the computer in business hours during the week and in the afternoon on weekends, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

[wheres my rock]

whats the situation that he becomes anxoius in and why has clomicalm been suggested

Personally id prefert o try all other avenues first

[wyvernblade]

I haven't heard of either of those people, but do know of someone who is using Clomicalm on an anxious GSD at the moment. It isn't a behavioural issue with her though, she either has hypothyroidism, or a hormonal problem. The owner is waiting on results back from a full blood test. She has said the clomicalm has helped almost straight away. (Dog well socilaised, fully shown and trained, handled by children, adults etc etc, passed gun tests, suddenly becomes nervy, scared of loud noises and strangers, pertrified of children etc etc) All happened after her first season, coat started dropping and she was discharging a clear fluid constantly. Maybe if you gave us a few more details of when and where your dog is anxious? If it is a problem it has always had? How old is the dog? How does the anxiety present itslef? I am not an expert but have been doing quite a bit of research with this GSD breeder because of this particular dog!

[Tralee]

Hi caninecoach.

The exact details are immaterial at this point.

He has a classic anxiety response and therefore and needs treatment for anxiety.

I have not committed to any 'avenue of remediation' at this point, but I am with you on pursuing alternative methods.

I am just trying to assess the best possible course of action.

[Tralee]

Hi wyvenblade.

Well, the Gsd certainly sounds anxious.

My 'boy' is eleven months old and fortunately isn't anywhere nearly as anxious as the dog you describe.

He is a Maremma, whom are normally suspious of strangers, but that is not what is happening here.

He has had a few bad experiences with Vets. but it is not certain whether they have been the root cause of his anxiety.

If it was then he would have a neuroses.

At present the problem is minor and wouldn't even have appeared if he wasn't being shown.

Nevertheless, it is my choice to place him in an unnatural situation and, in my opinion, he has an unacceptable response.

Are there any other treatments or training used with the clomicalm?

[haven]

My GSD is extremely anxious but it is not in one specific situation but more of a general anxiety. I tried Clomicalm with him and found that while it did seem to take the edge of things for him, it was of little benefit (and most definately costly!). I had much more dramatic success with DAP and a change in diet to raw foods as reccommended by Dr Robert Holmes. Since then I have also tried nutritional supplementation, Bach flower remedies (made specific to my dogs needs, not rescue remedy) and most recently a product called Nervatona (calm) with good results. This was all in addition to socialisation, obedience training and counter conditioning. My dog still suffers with his anxiety and most likely always will for a number of reasons, but as your case is situation specific, your dog is young and you are starting treatment right away I am sure you will have much better success.

Dr Robert Holmes is without peer if you're talking anxiety and dogs, I would trust in his advise 110%

[Tralee]

Hi haven.

Both of my dogs are already on raw food or BARF.

I found your comments about Nervatona and DAP (what is that?) interesting.

We do have a program for socialisation, obedience and couter conditioning but I haven't started it yet.

I will be consulting either Dr. Seksel or Dr. Holmes shortly.

Probably Dr. Holmes as I believe he does consults in Adelaide.

By the way. I understand that Dr. Seksel is a s good as Dr. Holmes. ;)

[jls]

Hi Pewithers,

I know you didn't mention the exact triggers for the anxiety, but, maybe we can advise how to desensitise your pet,through behaviours,reducing his stress that way.

I'm only offering an alternative to your circumstance.

Hope he goes well.

jls

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

As an aside, Kersti Seksel doesn't have a dog herself...which I find odd for a canine behaviourist.

For anxiety, IMO you can't go past a DAP diffuser and spray and other "natural" remedies such as rescue remedy or valerian.

[Kelpie-i]

Pewithers, I would certainly consult with Dr Robert Holmes as he is the foremost in his field. I'm going to make another suggestion to help solve your dog's problem. Apart from the remedies and obedience/socialisation training which are extremely important, I highly recommend that you commence the NILIF program as well. You can find some really good information on this by googling "NILIF" and selecting the first link.

NILIF, which stands for Nothing In Life Is Free is an excellent, ready to do, program which balances the hierarchy with you and your dog. Whilst we don't know the extent/type of anxiety your dog has, implementing this program will assist greatly.

A good site to read about various forms of anxiety and subsequent treatments is the Bill Campbell website which is behaviorx.com. Bill is a well respcted behaviourist in the USA and he has dealt with many anxious dogs. You'll find his case studies on his site.

[Tralee]

Hi jls, lillysmum and Kelpie-i.

My dog is not happy being examined or handled at close quarters.

Quite frankly I don't blame him.

The two Vets we have seen over the last nine months were as rough as guts.

I went to have him Temperament Tested on Friday and the stupid receptionist thought she would look at him.

He retreated backwards under a chair.

And let me just point out that the woman did not meet any of the criteria or posess any of the qualifications specified by Dogsnsw for Temperament Testers.

The Vet had even less of an idea about what he was doing.

I suspect some judges are just as ignorant and this is his problem.

Nevertheless, he needs to be "shown" without feeling threatened.

I don't think whether Kersti Seksel has a dog is relevant. It is supposed to be a science.

I am familiar with NILIF and I am very gratefull for the Bill Campbell link .

[Tralee]

Hi Kelpi-i

The address behaviorx.com is not correct.

Do you have any others?

[Staff'n'Toller]

Are you still in NSW Pewithers? Just that your avatar says that you are.

You have SABS Sydney Animal Behaviour Service, I have attended lectures by both Dr Gaille Perry and Dr Linda Beer, they are both fantastic.

www.sabs.com.au

Mel.

ETA: By coincidence I think I am having the same problems in the conformation ring with my boy, as you are having.

Edited August 13, 2006 by Staff'n'Toller

[Miranda]

Do you mean that the dog is backing off judges? If this is what is happening then I doubt that Clomicalm will help. I have known a few people who have tried Clomicalm specifically for this problem and it didn't make any difference at all. If the dog is just a little uncomfortable when the judge examines him I would suggest that you continue to persevere and he will probably grow out of it, however if the dog is totally freaking out at the judge's approach and making a positive effort to avoid being touched then you may have to accept that he just doesn't like showing. Sometimes a dog that is truly frightened may eventually snap is he's pushed too far, not all dogs can handle the showring and sometimes it's safer and kinder to the dog to withdraw it from the ring.

[bloss344]

I used Clomicalm on Bob a bit over a year ago when he was extremely stressy and anxious about virtually everything and didn't find it did anything other than make him aggressive towards other dogs. This apparently can be a side effect as it blocks the part of the brain that inhibits aggression [i think that's how the vet explained it].

I tried the DAP and found it helped a little with his SA issues. Best result I got was from Bach Flower Remedies specific to his problems, no Rescue Remedy.

[Kelpie-i]

Hi Pewithers

Here is the Link for Bill Campbell.

One other bit of advice is to not try to comfort your dog when he is showing his fear. Doing this will only reinforce his actions - in other words, you are rewarding that behaviour. Not sure if you are already doing this but thought I'd throw it in.

Re Dr Seksel - yes agree, whilst it's a science, I believe there's no greater learning experience than owning and working with your own dog/s.

[haven]

I found your comments about Nervatona and DAP (what is that?) interesting.

DAP is Dog Appeasing Pheromone which is currently available on conditional release pending registration so it can be tough to get. I purchased mine from Vetstop (online) in a diffuser form so it plugs into an electrical outlet much like the air fresheners which are all over the TV at the moment.

In laymen terms as I understand it, DAP is derived from the pheromones that a lactating bitch excretes when she is feeding her pups. It is supposed to be very soothing for dogs on both a chemical and psychological level (ie it triggers an emotional state because they associate it with feeling safe and fed and warm from when they were puppies). I have tried it with my dog and recommended it to many clients who have all had varying degrees of success.

The Nervatona (calm) is a new discovery that Rottshowgirl mentioned in another thread that I have since tried on myself, my dogs and some clients dogs with great success. I have seen it at most chemists and health food stores, it's cheap, easy to carry and easy to administer

I agree with Miranda, I don't think Clomicalm would be the best thing for your situation. I wouldn't be using a sedative like valium either as some vets tried to prescribe for my dogs anxiety. It blocks short term memory meaning they might be non reactive in the ring but wouldn't learn anything long term from the experience.

[piper]

Re Dr Seksel - yes agree, whilst it's a science, I believe there's no greater learning experience than owning and working with your own dog/s.

I have been along to a couple of seminars presented by Kersti Seksel and Gaille Perry, and Kersti quite openly states that the reason she does not currently have a dog is it would not be fair given the amount of time she spends away travelling doing seminars and lectures. A responsible attitude IMO. I can't remember if she has had dogs in the past, just that she explained why she doesn't have now.

[jaybeece]

I've used Clomicalm with my dog for when he started overgrooming as a reaction to stress and also to help take the edge off his fear triggered anxiety.

It does help a tiny amount, but it's certainly not 100% of a solution- maybe 5% at most and, as other people have mentioned, there are more effective drugs available. My dog still has problems, but I don't see enough benefit to continue using it.

Also, bear in mind that if you do end up resorting to medication, it is vital that you pair it up with a ton of positive training. I'd also be very careful about pushing him too much while he goes through this as you could run the risk of this behaviour becoming permanent.

[Rebanne]

I have been along to a couple of seminars presented by Kersti Seksel and Gaille Perry, and Kersti quite openly states that the reason she does not currently have a dog is it would not be fair given the amount of time she spends away travelling doing seminars and lectures. A responsible attitude IMO. I can't remember if she has had dogs in the past, just that she explained why she doesn't have now.

Yes she has had dogs in the past. When I heard her speak, several years ago, I think she had a couple.