Puppys Front Feet

[shekhina]

Can you correct this at an older age?

[polarpeak]

Can you correct this at an older age?

No you have to correct it while the puppy is still in the growth stage

[Miranda]

This can sometimes happen in my breed during teething, it usually appears at around 4/5 months and the pasterns generally (not always) straighten by 9/10 months, sometimes earlier. I would be suspicious of a puppy with an east/west front at 8 weeks as this can sometimes be indicative of elbow problems in the future, but I don't have a small breed so I guess this may be normal in JRT's.

[shekhina]

Can you correct this at an older age?

No you have to correct it while the puppy is still in the growth stage

Thank you

[Steve]

Yes I would say that you have a fair chance of correcting this in an older dog .Ive seen results in dogs [adults] almost overnight.

Just for interest you will actually see cattle in a paddock who have this problem as well if they are being supp fed and same with pigs .Once the diet is balanced again they come back O.K.and this isnt age related.

In dogs it is more common in young animals especially soon after [ say 4 to 6 weeks] after their second vaccinations and obviously the quicker you spot it and try to treat it the better but its my experience that you have a fair shot at helping an older dog as well.

You also have to remember that what you see is a symptom of the problem and there are other things going on inside the dog that you cant see which over time will show up as other things .These arent usually correlated by the owner or the vet but I believe they most definitely are. For a long time we've been saying its a calcium to posphorous in balance but thats too simple really as it can also be too much of something or too little of something else which helps these two things to absorb and assimilate.

Ben said Hi Julie, my dog is on home prepared meal (mainly chicken carcass, fish, beef, pork, vegies and rice). I am limiting his weight gain to about 1.5lb per week to prevent possible hip problem, so he is a very skinny dog. Any advise on the diet for fast growing puppy (oh, he's a golden retriever). The only supplement is fish oil (1000mg/day) and Vit C (25 - 50mg/day).

Im really against giving only one or two suppliments and very much against adding vitamin C.

Dogs manufacture their own vitamin C and its utilised diferently by them than it is for humans.

In order for them to be able to make their own they need a variety of other nutrients .There's a lot of stuff around telling us that

esther C makes a diference in joint problems etc [ and it does] but this is because the dog isnt making enough of its own vitamin C .Two things will prevent this from happening . One is there's not enough of what the dog needs to make its own and the other is that because the dog has been supplimented with vit C its system no longer knows how to do it .

So given that in high growth periods and times when the immune system is under stress the dog may need more than it can make to feed the joints etc the answer is simple .Instead of going for the vitamin C suppliment just squeeze an orange over his food .This gives you everything you need in just the right amounts for it all to be utilised the right way . Then of course you need to be feeding a diet which has a variety of foods and nutrients to enable the dog to use them to make its own vitamin C .

You dont need the rice and the more variety you offer the better.

Here's some links

http://www.bluegrace.com/barf.html

http://www.rawmeatybones.com/

http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_more/barf_pups.shtml

http://www.barfworld.com/main.shtml

http://www.barfers.com/bigpicture.html

[shekhina]

My 15 month old Rottweiler is a little east-west, but it's just a touch. It was quite bad when he was younger but has since straightened up considerably...he is 100% straight when he pulls himself together alert at something.

He is currently on Bonnie Working dog and getting chicken wings/drum sticks, some fruit occasionally, mince with vegies in it and sometimes natural yoghurt.

I have tried my dogs on full barf and my GSD did very poorly on it and I didn't see any difference in the Rotty so I've gone back to the Bonnie. What should I change about the diet (apart from barf) to try and straighten that front up a little more?

[Steve]

The phosphorous / calcium mix in the Bonnie will be already balanced but as Ive said its not just this that impacts on the outcome.

No mince unless its chicken pet mince ,add a multi vitamin and some thrive D [enzymes] or similar.

Never feed meat without the bone and make sure the raw meaty bones are soft so they are food bones and the dog eats equal portions of meat to bone. You can also add a packet of gelatin per day as well which is great for joints .

[shekhina]

Thanks very much for that.

The mince I get is ground up chicken stuff and it still has wingtips through it, as well as some liver pieces and vegies, that kind of thing.

Any kind of multi vitamin, childs?

[Steve]

Adult Rottie? Adult vitamin.

[Ah Ngau]

Thanks Julie/Steve

[shekhina]

Adult Rottie? Adult vitamin.

Nearly 15 months

[Steve]

yep.

[Appa]

Thanks Julie for your suggestions and everbodys input to this subject, i have stared a few of your recomendations and will let you all know how i go with him, cross my fingers it fixes the problem but if not ill still love just as his is

[Trisven13]

Steve - this is really fascinating and I would really love to use Tucker a Maltese X I have at home as a "guinea pig". I have attached a photo of him. Could you give me a diet plan for him (being as busy as I am I really need someone to just tell me ) so that I can see if I can improve it in him. Once I've improved his legs I'll start on his personality - only joking, he's not THAT bad!

I've also attached a picture of him when he came to us so you can see he has never been well cared for, and he was terribly, terribly thin.

[Trisven13]

Wouldn't let me fit in the matted shot.

[Steve]

Do you see in the second shot how he looks like he's walking on his wrists rather than his toes?

If the nutritional intake is correct a dog will look like its walking on tip toes .

I know everyone would love a diet plan and its relatively simple to do but my main beef about this is that once you say feed this or that specifically you are again in the position where you could easily be over or under supplimenting /feeding any number of things.

When you feed your self or your kids you know you cant possibly feed everything in the right ratio your body needs to stay healthy by feeding only one meal plan at every meal. You know that you need to balance the diet over a period of about a week and that the best way to do that is to feed lots of unprocessed foods in as much variety as possible.Raw chicken wings have all of the minerals you need including glucosamine.In fact you get more in this than you do in most joint supps .You can feed raw eggs and put the shells in the microwave for a minute or two .When the shells are brittle you can roll over them after you place them between paper towel or paperbags etc and crush them up into tiny pieces and either mix it in with the rest of the egg or put it with some other food. This is a great source of several minerals .You can do no harm by adding a childrens multi vitamin and mineral but dont supp only one or two .

Couple of things . First if you give chicken wings make sure the dog is eating all of the wing and not just the meat off them or you may have to get them minced .Next people often choose a food which seems to suit their dog and so they stick with it .

Every commercial food says they are complete and yet they are all different so if you always feed only one brand there is a hugher risk that something is either too high or too low which will impact over time .So if you have to feed commercial its a good idea to change brands and not just stick to one for the whole of the dogs life.

Some vets and breeders advise adding calcium to try to correct this and unless you look at way more than just the calcium and whats going on to interact this isnt the long term answer.

If this is the result of a dietary in balance its only the first symptom and as the dog ages other problems begin to show so its good to work it out now.

If you are still having problems with this give a yell .

[Trisven13]

Thanks Steve - will have a go at working some food out and see what you think of what I'm feeding.

Trish

[Trisven13]

Had 50kg of chicken carcasses donated today with more to come tomorrow so will chicken carcasses be okay instead of chicken wings??? I can get some minced chicken carcasses and what I have done previously is, using my food processer, I've minced up carrots, apples & bok choy and then mixed in sardines, yoghurt, eggs etc. Is that the sort of food you're talking about? He had some lamp flaps yesterday. I can easily get him pet chicken mince, lamb flaps and, obviously, chicken carcasses. What else, if anything, should I be including?

[Steve]

Had 50kg of chicken carcasses donated today with more to come tomorrow so will chicken carcasses be okay instead of chicken wings??? I can get some minced chicken carcasses and what I have done previously is, using my food processer, I've minced up carrots, apples & bok choy and then mixed in sardines, yoghurt, eggs etc. Is that the sort of food you're talking about? He had some lamp flaps yesterday. I can easily get him pet chicken mince, lamb flaps and, obviously, chicken carcasses. What else, if anything, should I be including?

Yep that sounds great Just remember to make it about 80 percent raw meaty bones and that some things [ such as vitamin E ] are killed off if you freeze it . This shouldnt be an issue though based on what else you are feeding. Personally for the first month or so Id add a childs multi vitamin and a splash of apple cider vinegar daily and re assess it in 4 weeks time .

[saladtossa]

sometimes caused by not keeping the dogs front nails trimmed...