Update On Rosie (was Senile Dementia)

[BarneyMacRosie]

Rosie has progressive cognitive dysfunction / senile dementia which appears to be getting much worse. She had a bad night last night and I am very worried about her.

She has been on the drug Fitergol before with not much improvement, so the Vet has recommended trying the Hills BD (brain diet) food.

I am realistic to know that she is not getting 'better', but any improvement would be good to get the most quality out of the rest of her life as possible.

Has anyone had experience with senile dementia and/or the BD food and if so,

- did the food make an improvement?

- how did you decide when was the 'right time' that your dog was ready to go to the Rainbow Bridge? Or do you think I will just 'know' (as I did with my previous dog, 'Mosh')?

thanks

Katie

Edited August 20, 2006 by BarneyMacRosie

[Mooper]

I don't have much experience with older dogs, so can only suggest that while ever Rosie is pain-free and still has a glint in her eye, she's still with you beneath the fog of dementia. :rolleyes:

[Benji's Mum]

You'll know. I've had heaps of oldies, and trust me, if you're that close, you'll know.

This may sound strange, but I feel relief when the struggle is over, knowing that the end was painfree and not alone.

I worry when they are doddery that they could get away and get hurt and lost even more than when I own a healthy dog, esp when they are reliant on meds.

Give her lots of cuddles and try not to get too upset in front of her, they feel your upset and I find that upsets them too. Be strong for her. Big hugs to you, you'll need them.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I have experience with Canine Dementia with my old boy Aussie (staffy x ACD). He was a bit over 12 yrs when the symptoms began...and we had a few upheavals around that time (long distance move x 2, added a new dog, changes to household routine etc). He declined slowly for the most part. The changes were gradual and we didn't really put it all together until after the first year. We didn't go for either medication or a diet change. We opted to see how each day progressed.

It wasn't the CD that got him in the end, but multiple organ failure. We had to help him to the Bridge and it was a very painful moment when we were told there was nothing else that could be done for Aussie. There is no "easy" way to lose a loved one but we felt that this was a sudden and unavoidable outcome. I still miss him nearly five years after his passing.

If Rosie is still happy and enjoying life, and if she's getting around OK, and if you still "see" Rosie in there at least some of the time, and if she's not in physical pain or emotional anguish, then it's not time yet. But you WILL know. Or your trusted vet will help you to see it if needed.

I'm so sorry, but take it one day at a time, use all the available management tools, and just keep looking out for Rosie. :rolleyes:

[BarneyMacRosie]

Thanks everyone

take it one day at a time, use all the available management tools, and just keep looking out for Rosie

Yes, that's all I can do I guess. It's so hard when they get like this, not that I've experienced it before, but I know a lot of others have.

We are going to the beach soon, so I hope she shows signs of still enjoying that because she normally loves it.

K

[BittyMooPeeb]

Sorry to hear about Rosie BMR

As long as she isn't distressed, and has her surroundings she feels confortable in, I wouldnt worry - she will let you know when it is time. I found (with my lovely Jazz ) who had symptoms similar to dementia, that I needed to confine him as he could easily get lost, disoriented and distressed, even in his own house/garden. Once he went missing and it took me a whole day to find him - he was sitting in a back garden down the other end of the street howling with fright - I still cry about that even today. So just be extra careful that she cant wander by accident and get lost, or get somewhere in the house/yard that she might not be able to get out of.

Best wishes for her Katie

ETA: when Jazz was treated (4 yrs ago), there were several different medications available for canine dementia. Maybe you could try a different one?

Edited August 10, 2006 by BittyMooPeeb

[LouiseBrooks]

Barney I also seem to be starting this journey.

Some days are better than others for her.

Today we have to shut down works computer system so I will be searching different sites to see if there are any suggestions.

I will post any of interest.

[LouiseBrooks]

This is an interesting article, how to care for our golden oldies.

-----------------

With advancements in veterinary medicine and nutrition, pets are living longer than ever before. Geriatric medicine is gaining in popularity as the demand grows for more attention to our aging pet population.

Most dogs are considered "old" around eight or nine years. Large and giant breeds are considered middle-aged around 6 or 7. Smaller breeds tend to live much longer than large breeds, even into their mid-teens.

Canine senior citizens have more needs, and require more attention. Their sight and hearing may diminish, and they will require more sleep and move more slowly. Stairs may become a hardship, so sleeping arrangements may need adjusting. They need to go out more often, as bladder and bowel control may weaken with age. They still need appropriate exercise, frequent grooming, and proper nutrition. Since they may have fewer teeth, a soft diet may be necessary.

Most changes with the aging process occur gradually, but there are several things to watch for, and preventative steps to take to ensure that your favorite dog will keep active and healthy into his/her golden years. Regular veterinary examinations are critical to a dog’s health. It is important to keep a detailed medical history and continue regular veterinary visits to ensure a long, healthy life for your dog.

Obesity is a major problem with dogs in our society, since owners tend to feed table scraps in excess. Serious health problems may result from obesity. Extra weight puts a strain on the animal’s heart, lungs, skeleton, and muscles, and lowers resistance to disease. Regular moderate exercise and proper nutrition are essential to maintain optimal weight and health.

Arthritis often affects older dogs, and causes them to slow down and lessens their ability to climb steps or jump up on a favorite chair. If your dog shows signs of arthritis, your veterinarian can examine him and may suggest radiographs. Your veterinarian then may be able to prescribe an appropriate medication to lessen the pain, and give the dog more mobility.

Heart disease is more common in aging dogs. Initial signs are coughing, shortness of breath, rapid breathing, and even fainting spells. If diagnosed in the early stages, medications are available to treat the symptoms of heart disease that can help your dog live a more normal life.

Your dog will benefit from regular grooming to stimulate the coat and skin. During grooming sessions, check for skin disorders or dry, irritated skin, or oozing sores under the coat. This is a good time to notice any lump or growth that has appeared. Often these are benign growths, but may require surgery, especially if they are growing. Your veterinarian can help guide you with these decisions.

Bathing is only suggested on rare occasions, since frequent baths remove natural protective oils from the skin. If he is dirty, or shows evidence of fleas, he may be bathed in lukewarm water using mild shampoo. Be sure to rinse the soap thoroughly. Also look for parasites that may cause discomfort. Fleas are common, but can be controlled by oral medication or topical products, including powders, sprays, collars, or dips. Contact your veterinarian for recommended prevention or treatment.

Eyes should be cleaned of any discharge with a soft cloth moistened with water or saline solution. Ear discomfort is indicated by scratching or head shaking. Infections can settle deep in the ear canal and should be treated by your veterinarian immediately.

The dog’s mouth should be examined periodically for signs of gum disease, and tartar accumulation. This is an important part of the annual veterinary examination, and any problems should be addressed immediately. Many older dogs lose their teeth, or they may be extracted if disease or infection is detected.

Elderly dogs may exercise less frequently on hard surfaces to keep their nails filed down, so it is your job to clip their nails, to keep them comfortable. Neglected nails may cripple a dog.

Preventing Accidents

Extra precautionary measures should be taken with elderly dogs. As their hearing and eyesight diminishes, they should be supervised more closely, and not allowed to fend for themselves. They may not see or hear cars or life-threatening hazards. Do not allow them on balconies, or stairwells without supervision.

Keep poisons out of reach of any animal. Many popular household plants can be toxic to dogs, including cyclamen, ferns, philodendrons, dieffenbachia, and other varieties. Cleaning solutions such as detergents, bleaches, oven cleaners, etc. may pose hazards as well. Make sure bottle caps are tight and the rags used to apply these chemicals are stored safely out of reach. Treat pets like children and keep medicines locked up, and never leave candy, especially chocolate, where dogs may have access to it.

Outdoor hazards include windshield cleaners, antifreeze, weed killers, used motor oil, and insecticides. Antifreeze has a sweet taste, and just a few licks can be fatal to your dog. Other hazards include rodenticides used to kill rats and mice. If any poisoning occurs, call your veterinarian immediately, and provide a sample of the poison with the labeling to aid in proper treatment. In an emergency, you may wish to call the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center at 1-888-426-4435.

Avoid extremes in temperature. Of course, never leave any dog in a parked car in hot weather, even with the windows open, and never leave him outside without water and shade. Similarly, in frigid temperatures, bring him indoors, and be sure he always has shelter from wind, rain, and sun, even in mild temperatures. Tolerance for temperature extremes is reduced with old age, and you should always consider the dog’s comfort. In old age, you may not want to take your pet on car trips as often, since he may become uncomfortable with strange places, and would rather stay at home in an environment where he is very familiar.

Your veterinarian is the best source of information about all animal health matters.

In a medical crisis situation, call your veterinarian immediately if you detect any of the following symptoms:

• abnormal breathing

• abnormal behavior

• active bleeding

• bone exposure

• puncture to abdomen, chest, or neck

• watery or bloody discharge

• partial or complete paralysis

• difficulty urinating

• profuse vomiting or diarrhea

• poison ingestion

• bloated or tender abdomen

• rectal temperature over 103 degrees F or under 99 degrees F

• dehydration

• abnormal color of gums or eyes

• disorientation

• collapse

Never give any medication (even aspirin) without consulting your veterinarian.

Together you and your veterinarian can have a positive influence on your dog’s happiness and comfort and ensure that the quality of life is maintained during the senior years. A lifetime of love should be rewarded with special attention.

Karen Kandra is a Editor of the FDA Veterinarian

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I have 2 dogs with dementia, 1 is a foster and 1 is a girl I rescued 6 years ago.

With the foster, her symptoms are that she will stand in my gravel pathway and move her legs backwards and forwards for hours. As she was sometimes making her feet sore, I have blocked the access to that which seems to have helped. She will make the same movements inside the house but not for lengthy periods. She will also bark at nothing sometimes, but she's also deaf and virtually blind which doesn't help. She can certainly see her ear drops bottle though and runs a mile, she is a happy and loving little dog.

With my own dog, the symptoms are a lot worse but due to the fact she has Cushings Disease and is on chemo and thyroid meds, the vet isn't putting her on any other medication.

She gets lost if you take her away from her own environment, even if she knows the places extremely well so she can no longer be let off leash in certain areas or visit other peoples' places.

I've had to take all the carpet up because she starting peeing all over it (luckily I have tiles but it's been freezing). Tried small rugs but she does the same thing.

She hasn't eaten from a bowl for a year, she would rather starve so I hand feed her. She is also weird about drinking water and will turn around and go back to the bowl for another drink up to 15 times.

Aside from all her problems, she is still enjoying her walks and cuddles. Although certain people have said put her down because of the weeing inside the house, I was reluctant to do this whilst she remains happy! I would rather just not have carpet than be without her. She is the most exceptional dog and I adore her and want her with me as long as possible but that will only be while she is happy and still enjoying life.

Wishing you all the best, you will know when the time is right.

[BarneyMacRosie]

Thanks for all your comments. It is good to know we are not alone.

In the last week, Rosie's biggest problem has been lack of appetite. We just can't get her to eat enough.

She will have about a tablespoon full but not enough. We have tried roast chicken, cat food, and even black pudding, heated up in the microwave etc - all of which she has a little taste but then no longer interested. We haven't tried puppy milk but will give that a go too.

The decrease in appetite seemed to co-incide with the thyroid medication, so she has been taken off the pills and the Vet is going to re-examine her tomorrow for possible other underlying conditions made more prominent by stimulating her metabolic rate, such as possible heart disease.

The poor girl. She had cuddles in bed with me this morning lying on my chest like a little koala and she is just so sweet.

But there is hardly anything to her now. She was only 4.5 kilos (underweight) and has dropped to a dreadful 3.6. I feel awful about that but don't know what we can do to get her to eat. Apart from that she seems happy - just pottering around and sleeping like she always does.

Phil and I have discussed euthanasia, and of course we will make that decision when we have to, but the Vets are not advising that at present. But I am certainly not going to let herself starve. We will talk more with them about her tomorrow.

Hugs to all the oldies -

Katie

[BarneyMacRosie]

P.S We did get to the beach and she enjoyed her little wanders on the sand. He she is pottering behind Barney being a boof-head in the hole he dug for himself...

[BarneyMacRosie]

And with friends...

[BarneyMacRosie]

She hasn't eaten from a bowl for a year, she would rather starve so I hand feed her.

Rosie won't eat from my hand either

[TangerineDream]

When Cadence was ill after being bitten by a white tail, his appetite was so depressed that he had to be force fed...I used to mix chicken mince, rice, oatmeal, Weetbix to a sort of gooey mess and put small handfuls down his throat and massage till he swallowed - I actually kept his food intake up to what it should have been doing it this way and he was happy and had a great coat. This kept him both live and healthy (he didn't lose any weight at all) for the 6 weeks of refusal to eat after the spider bite, and also during the last 8 weeks of his life when he periodically wouldn't eat.

[Mooper]

What's the gear given to really sick dogs ... Nutrigel? Will that help keep her energy up?

It's uncharted territory for me. But I can understand how frustrating it must be to see her weight dropping and appetite decreasing. Glad she (and you) enjoyed the beach

[Ci]

My old GSD got it and we let go for as long as we could and for as long she was enjoying her life in her fuzzy state.

It got to the point where she would forget to go to the toilet and soil her matt and then hide behind a tree becasue she though she would get into trouble.

She was also deaf so sometime it took ages to her find in our own home.

She wasn't in pain but she had lost all her marbles and it was just cruel to keep her going when it go to that point.

[BarneyMacRosie]

We took Rosie back to the Vet on Saturday as she hasn't been doing very well. Over the last four weeks, she has lost weight, seemingly gone blind, and not interested in doing very much. Also walking aimlessly and in circles a bit. We also took her off the thyroid pills because these seemed to be making her worse. Anyway, we pretty much started grieving and resigning ourselves that we have to let her go when the time is right. The Vet said there wasn't much that could be done for her - that she couldn't afford to lose any more weight and that she might even have something wrong with her brain - possible brain tumor - not just dementia, and that this would cause her to walk in circles, lose sight so quickly, and not be able to eat. She was doing a weird thing where she would seem semi-interested in food like roast chicken and start to lick it, but not be able to chew or swallow it. I didn't want to force feed her because this would distress her very much. Anyway, Vet said there was one more thing we could try and that was to give her Cortisone (steroids), which might give her a few more weeks, or even months. So she started taking the Cortisone on Saturday, and honestly by today she is a different dog. She is eating well, appears to be able to see again (?), and is full of life. I am so pleased we didn't give up on her. I know she will get worse again, and her time to go to the Bridge will still come, but for now, I am just enjoying seeing her being 'Rosie' again. She is lying happily now where the sun comes through the window.

Katie

Edited August 21, 2006 by BarneyMacRosie

[Nellie]

That's really lovely that you are able to have some more time with the real Rosie

[Kelly_Louise]

Great news that Rosie has had a turn around!!! I'm so pleased.

It may not be forever, but these times are a gift...

Hope Rosie can be happy and enjoy life for some time yet... and that you can enjoy Rosie also!!!

Lots of hugs to Rosie,

from Kel and Chloe