How Do I Keep My Dog Off Of The Kitchen Table! And How Do You Disc

[wolf82]

Hes 9 months old, and hes a notorious counter surfer, so everthing is well out of reach if there is food out.

As soon as we leave the room we can hear dishes clinking etc as he tries to lick what ever is in the sink, and we come out and shout at him to get down he does it, or if he hears us coming, he knows hes not ment to be doing it.

Well yesterday, it was a bad day at work, bad day at gym, and i was sore and grumpy. I walk into the kitchen to find Loki standing on the bloody kitchen table licking away, with out huskie also having his paws up tried to get what they were licking. He must have jumped as all chairs are kept pushed in. As soon as i walked into the room the huskie did a runner (he knew he was in trouble) and Loki froze, like a rabbit in the headlights.

I shouted at him to get down and he moved a tiny bit, and i yelled again "get down NOW" and once again he didnt move. So i smacked him on the bum and pulled him off by the scruff and gave him a small shake and told him "NO".

Now.. I know i shouldnt have done this, no excuses. I tried to call Loki for something last night after this happened and he wouldnt come, so i walked over to him and he dropped his head like he was scared of me, so i screwed up, bigtime.

I dont want him being scared of me, i try not to shout at them when they are doing naughty stuff, and i very very very rarely smack him.

How can i keep him off of the table, and discipline him at the same time? Its like he is pushing the boundrys, hes close to 10 months old, and his "listening ears" rarely come on, if he fixates on something, or is doing something, you can call him name and he wont even twitch, it takes a few loud name calls before he will turn and acknowledge that you are trying to call him.

Thoughts or ideas?

He goes to doggy school, hes in grade 3 but im thinking of asking to go back down a class, grade 3 is too hard for him, he spents 90% of the time with his nose on the ground and not listening to a thing i say. Possibly related to puberty? He is not desexed.

Steve

[wolf82]

I must also add that he used to be very good off the lead, but now hes not, he wont come back for the life of him if there is something interesting to smell on the ground.

Its like he is so focused on this one smell, that i can call him all day and he wont budge, but i walk close to him he sees me and is like "Oh, sorry i wasnt paying attention, do you want me?" and then i call him and he comes running with out a care in the world.

I need focusing exercises or something. Can anyone please give me some tips on training in drive too?

Steve

[Staff'n'Toller]

Essentially, you can keep disciplining him, but it is self rewarding behaviour, and the reward he gets (licking the dishes) far outweighs any punishment you are going to give after he has started.

He is an adolescent dog, yes probably going through puberty, but mostly he is way too young to have run of the house. If he were my dog he would be crated or tethered to a spot, or I would use baby gates to keep the dogs out of the kitchen. Manage his behaviour by not letting him practice the bad behaviour over and over.

10mth old dogs are notourious for not listening, so I would manage him until he is older, more mature, more relaxed, will listen to your directions. Also, practice your obedience in the house in every room, in the yard, everywhere! You may need to separate the dogs for training sessions so you can focus individually on each dog.

Ensure that you are rewarding (with the good stuff not just pats) for good, calm, settled behaviours inside. Tired dogs are generally good dogs, so look at your exercise regimen too.

I recommend all dogs live by the NILIF program- you can read about it here: NILIF

Hope that helps a bit,

Mel.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Staff'n'Toller

[Dogs4Fun]

Sounds like your dog hasn't "earnt" the right to have the degree of freedom in the house that he has at the moment.

You may need to review his training so far - is he crate trained? You may need to have him safely restrained at all times when you are out of his sight until you can do some retraining. Even some "doggy/baby" gates to restrict his access to certain areas may be useful, but with his jumping ability, you may need shut doors rather than just gates.

[sas]

Sorry to me 'I' think you over-did the dicipine, not only did you give him a whack but you also shook him and yelled at him....I'd be a little scared of you and probably wouldn't respect you much either.....sounds like pretty old-fashioned dog dicipline.......we've come a long way since then.

Have you researched into NILIF, it's a training program designed for humans to gain Leadership status with their canine companions and also create a better behaved pooch.

It's important to note that Leadership and Respect are 2 different things.

Edited July 26, 2006 by sas

[Nekhbet]

leave some chilli sauce on the plates that smell like gravy or something nice. He'll learn its not THAT great or cover them with a tea towel if you have to leave them.

Yeah you chucked a wobbly. All humans will do it occasionally. The dog will come round, just hand feed him for a while and give him some preferential treatment to show you dont hate him. I agree with StaffnToller just keep up the obedience, stepping down is a good idea because no point in going on with a dog that wont listen. Puberty is great isnt it

[Mrsdog]

Some very good advice here. My immediate thought was "don't let him near the table". But then of course that isn't teaching him anything. BUT you really should always be there when he has access to the table. It really is the old prevention is better than cure. (Did like that chilli on the plate advice. ) NILIF is good training.

This dog is obviously a very good jumper so Agility has to be on the horizon? Or Flyball? He is going to be such a good dog with a little more training and once he gets past the teenage stage!!

I always try to turn every negative into a positive, but must admit I'm having trouble with this one. In the meantime I would make sure that there is absolutely nothing on the table to reward him for getting up there. No reward = not worth the effort. Then if he does sneak past when you are not looking he won't gain anything. Know this is a bit of a pain and more work for you but if you can't watch all the time then it is the only answer.

Please let me know how you get on as I am finding this really interesting.

BTW dogs are very forgiving and once he realises he has the real you back things will be back to normal again.

Noels.

[shoemonster]

leave some chilli sauce on the plates

OT I know but I was going to use chilli sauce on the end of Eddies collar so Molly wouldn't chew on it, and thought I might just make sure she doesn't like it first

Gave her some on my finger, she licked it all off, and looked a bit funny

Offered some more expecting her to refuse it, but she licked it all up too

Psycho dog!

[crazy beagle lady]

If you add chilli paste, tabasco, chilli flakes to the sauce they are not always as keen on it!

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: we have a mat that you lay on counter that will take the "reward" out of the counter surfing... harmless, but annoying for your dog...

I havent seen them fail yet...

[wolf82]

Im going to try the chilli thing and see how we go, but i honestly think it will fail :D

My dog should have been born a pig. He snorts, groans, generally acts like a pig He also eats anything thats food related, i can be eating curry and he will want some, i gave him some vindaloo once and he wanted more! I didnt give him more tho, i didnt want to be cleaning up runny poo lol!

I think its just his age, ill be doing more training with him, im just glad our huskie hasnt learned to jump like that though, he has 10 times the energy our AmStaff does, i think if a dog could have ADHD, it would be our huskie ;)

Thanks for the advice guys!

PS K9, i will look into those mat's if all else fails, thanks!

PSS Is there any info i can look at to give me basics on how to train in drive? Id come to your sessions but you dont run them in adelaide ;)

Steve

[bloss344]

It's an awful age isn't it? Strong and willful and a who cares attitude. :D

I might have missed something here but wouldn't it just be easier to make sure that there are no dishes in reach. That way there's no reward when he has a lick. And you become a much better housekeeper. My house has never been so tidy since getting Bob. He's over the counter surfing and stealing of inappropriate objects now, but I'm still tend to the tidy side.

Do you by any chance feed him off your plate while you are eating?

[Bozley's Angel]

Slowly but surely our dane learnt the "leave it" command - he can rest his face on our bench tops in the kitchen and dining table but he will not go near a plate or dish once he hears the leave it command, and now we rarely have to say it at all. Of course to teach it you have to be around them all the time at first when anything is left out.

Dani

Just realised that it is different with danes because they don't have their paws up. Sorry leave it probably won't cut it when the dog is ON the table!!!

Edited July 28, 2006 by Bozley's Angel

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: putting chilli on a plate cant hurt, unless the dog likes chilli, then it will lol...

Do remember that your trying to discourage counter surfing, not eating from a plate...

But adding chilli wont do that, the dog may find the high ground (counter) a reward.

Let me know if you need a mat, we have a couple left in stock.

PSS Is there any info i can look at to give me basics on how to train in drive? Id come to your sessions but you dont run them in adelaide

K9: Not really no, there is a thread around here somewhere about a workshop in SA, other than that I have distance learning packages for interstate people.

Edited July 28, 2006 by K9 Force

[TangerineDream]

Turned around from the washing up last night to discover a 30kg GSP standing looking mighty pleased with himself on the dining room table :p (which by the way had been cleared, so it wasn't food he was after).

Comment from mate....."that's a dominance move if ever I saw one". Agreed....... (mind you I'm not surprised). After being roared at from the kitchen, it took off with a smirk down the hall, got brought back and put into a long down.

Yes I know...my fault - he's a seriously dominant dog and I haven't been as accurate or consistent as I should have. That changed as of last night......ah, the joys (NOT) of living with an adolescent male

...and Shek, I think you are right, we have a Rottie and a GSP who are siblings :D

[MaxSpots]

K9 Force would doing the triangle of temptation work here ??

It certainly helped my dog to learn to wait her turn.

She was never a counter surfer though, too small.

[Rusky]

this reminds me of when Rusky was a puppy and we were going out for dinner... we bought son KFC for tea, we left... he called as he had left his KFC on the coffee table and Rusky had eaten it cardboard and all :D then she was sick, not surprised really :p

I would keep a clean bench and washed dishes for a couple of weeks while you work on your problem then maybe trekking? turn it around, he has a good nose obviously, make that sniff work.

[Kavik]

Zoe is an avid counter surfer

Mostly I don't have her in the room when there is food around (I know, doesn't teach her not to do it). Diesel is fine, so far Kaos is alright too.

Hmmm - those mats sound alright!

My old dog and the Beagle my parents had for a bit were notorious counter surfers - would get on the table if you weren't watching and they found the Beagle in the sink! :D

[Steve K9Pro]

T: Turned around from the washing up last night to discover a 30kg GSP standing looking mighty pleased with himself on the dining room table :D :p (which by the way had been cleared, so it wasn't food he was after).

Comment from mate....."that's a dominance move if ever I saw one". Agreed....... (mind you I'm not surprised). After being roared at from the kitchen, it took off with a smirk down the hall, got brought back and put into a long down.

K9: it doesnt have to be dominance, the dog could be driven up there by a few things...

MS:K9 Force would doing the triangle of temptation work here ??

It certainly helped my dog to learn to wait her turn.

She was never a counter surfer though, too small.

K9: it can help, mainly if your there...

The mats are the best though....

Edited September 28, 2006 by K9 Force

[poodlefan]

You don't need a big dog to have this problem.. my mini poodles can make it onto the kitchen benches with no problems. I have controlled the behavior by NEVER leaving food and dogs unattended in the same room.

If you want to encourage a dog to do something more often, make sure its rewarding. To discourage, make sure it isn't or make it adversive.

First rule - get the food/plates off the table before you leave the room. Always. No exceptions. No reward means the behaviour won't increase and should decrease. K9's mats will decrease the behaviour because the result of getting on the table will be unpleasant for the dog.

Is this dog in obedience training? If not, get thee to a good club/trainer. Time to reinforce who's the leader in the household (that's meant to be you). If your dog is blowing you off now, its only going to get worse without changes.