peibe Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Sounds stressful, the yogurt should settle his tummy I give mine yakult aswell lol Desexing him probably will not make a difference, the only problem I see with undesexed Shar Pei is bad coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 I do plan to introduce probiotics but I dont want them to mask the symptoms of the colitis. So when he improves for a few consective days then I will introduce them. In the meanwhile should I be concerned about him 'od'ing on turkey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoepuppy Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) Hi, I don't know if I should start this on a new thread as it is the along the same line that I am writing this but I have a GSD. She has had runny mucousy poo a few times in recent months and it usually happens after I give her a treat e.g raw bones and raw mince meat. She never had problems when she was younger with these treats but as she grows older (now 13.5 years) I find that she more intolerant of certain foods. Occasionally I would give her a little bit of sardine with her dry food and she was ok with this. She has been on a strict diet on Eukanuba for seniors for more than a year now. However this week, although she had not even had a treat, she had mucousy poo again ( i don't see any blood) on and off like one day she was ok and then the following day horrible slushy mucousy poo. I can't hear her tummy grumbling, she is alert and playful, her coat and eyes are shiny. I think she might be drinking a bit more water than usual. Reading the above threads, I was wondering if I should change her diet and give her chicken and rice, yoghurt? What type of chicken meat should I get and from the supermarket or from the pet shop? Should I give the chicken in raw form or cooked? And what the yoghurt, isn't this considered as dairy? Hope you DOLers can help me. Thanks! Edited August 15, 2006 by zoepuppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I do not think he could "OD" on turkey lol, but he will probably get awfully sick of it soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 LOL! Perhaps I could have worded that better. I'm just concerned he will develop an intolerance to turkey given he's had so much of it over the last fortnight. He's eating it very enthusiastically at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 LOL! Perhaps I could have worded that better. I'm just concerned he will develop an intolerance to turkey given he's had so much of it over the last fortnight. He's eating it very enthusiastically at this point If this dog has food intolerances/allergies there is always the chance that he will develop an intolerance/allergy to the turkey at some point, but just keep feeding it until you feel he has developed an intolerance. My Bob has food intolerances and he is intolerant to chicken, beef and kangaroo and just recently after two exposures to turkey it seems that he is intolerant to it as well. I did an elimination diet for him and eventually added in a couple of veggies and supplements to it. Basically he eats the same thing day and day out and never seems to get bored with it. I make his treats out of the same ingredients as his meals. When an intolerance to his protein source shows up I change it. So far apart from the turkey he's been averaging about 10 months before he shows an intolerance, but all dogs are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 Thanks Bloss. I have become a worry-wart now in regards to what I'm feeding him. I sincerely hope he doesn’t develop a turkey intolerance but the thought it might has of course crossed my mind. Whatever it is he’s intolerant to (lamb, chicken, beef, pork or veal – and that’s assuming its meat!) has taken about 8 months to show up now. I took him off rice yesterday just to see what difference it makes. If he improves over the next day or so minus the rice I'm going to give mashed potato a try (another novel food source for him) and eventually sweet potato and then later on maybe carrot. I'm sure he misses his vegies. He would quite happily eat my raw vegie blend with nothing else. I always found it quite amusing he would whine pitifully for vegies when I was batching it up Can I ask what you've done in terms of treats? What and how are you making them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 If this dog has food intolerances/allergies there is always the chance that he will develop an intolerance/allergy to the turkey at some point, but just keep feeding it until you feel he has developed an intolerance. My Bob has food intolerances and he is intolerant to chicken, beef and kangaroo and just recently after two exposures to turkey it seems that he is intolerant to it as well. I did an elimination diet for him and eventually added in a couple of veggies and supplements to it. Basically he eats the same thing day and day out and never seems to get bored with it. I make his treats out of the same ingredients as his meals. When an intolerance to his protein source shows up I change it. So far apart from the turkey he's been averaging about 10 months before he shows an intolerance, but all dogs are different. Actually that shows that you have a very rare dog. The critical period for allergy development is from birth to about 1.5 years of age. There is a critical window (about 6 months to 1.5 years) during which time most dogs will begin to express and show their allergies. For them to develop new ones after this time is extremely rare, although it can happen, just its a 1 in a million kinda thing. An intollerance is slightly different, can develop at different time, however, it is still extremely rare for a dog to keep developing intollerances to a variety of new things. Its quite possible that (given it is an intolerance as opposed to an immune mediated allergy) that he just has issues with poultry. Intolerances aren't always as specific as true allergies. Given that it only took two exposures too I would think this might be the case. Either that or his system just needed to adjust to a new food. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) I took him off rice yesterday just to see what difference it makes. If he improves over the next day or so minus the rice I'm going to give mashed potato a try (another novel food source for him) and eventually sweet potato and then later on maybe carrot. I'm sure he misses his vegies. He would quite happily eat my raw vegie blend with nothing else. I always found it quite amusing he would whine pitifully for vegies when I was batching it up You want to be very careful now of swapping sources of food on him. The more you swap now the more you are exposing him to and if you need to see a dermatologist then you are severely limiting what you will be able to put him on when they want to test him. Its also going to confuse his gut whilst he is trying to adjust to new foods and also you will have to start again each time you swap for the 6-8 week period you have him on "elimination". This is where its really useful to be doing this process with a Dermatologist because they would be holding your hand through this process and showing you where to go next. I think at this point in time I would be asking about a referral to Murdoch. Dan ETA: I forgot to say fingers crossed for a good out come for Raf Edited August 15, 2006 by zayda_asher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Actually that shows that you have a very rare dog. The critical period for allergy development is from birth to about 1.5 years of age. There is a critical window (about 6 months to 1.5 years) during which time most dogs will begin to express and show their allergies. For them to develop new ones after this time is extremely rare, although it can happen, just its a 1 in a million kinda thing. An intollerance is slightly different, can develop at different time, however, it is still extremely rare for a dog to keep developing intollerances to a variety of new things. Its quite possible that (given it is an intolerance as opposed to an immune mediated allergy) that he just has issues with poultry. Intolerances aren't always as specific as true allergies. Given that it only took two exposures too I would think this might be the case. Either that or his system just needed to adjust to a new food. Dan Bob started showing signs of environmental allergies [skin, runny eyes, sneezing] at 9 weeks of age and the food intolerances started not long after that. [diahrrea, vomiting, gas, gas, gas and not eating]. Chicken was the first food I neededto eliminate which makes sense as all the puppy kibbles have chicken, then he became intolerant of beef at about age 14m, kangaroo at 2 years. So far he's been doing well on rabbit since last Christmas, fingers crossed that it will last for a while yet, or hopefully he won't develop an intolerance to it at all. With the turkey, he may have had something with turkey when he was a young pup that I've forgotten about of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloss344 Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I took him off rice yesterday just to see what difference it makes. If he improves over the next day or so minus the rice I'm going to give mashed potato a try (another novel food source for him) and eventually sweet potato and then later on maybe carrot. I'm sure he misses his vegies. He would quite happily eat my raw vegie blend with nothing else. I always found it quite amusing he would whine pitifully for vegies when I was batching it up Can I ask what you've done in terms of treats? What and how are you making them? If you are feeding turkey with bone, there is no reason why you can't just feed that, and drop the carb source for now and see if that helps. The bones will give him the necessary bulk to keep pooping. It would simplify the elimination diet and make it easier to work out just what is upseting him. For treats I put some cooked rabbit mince, rice and rice flour in the food processor. Add a little water or rabbit broth and blend like crazy till it's well mushed up. Then I spread it on an oven tray and bake it at low temp about 170 until it's set to our liking. For training treats I like it chewy, but you can also bake it longer and make it crunchy. You could do the same with turkey mince, just mush it then spread it and bake it. Or just cook some turkey and chop that up. While they are on an elimination diet food is very simple. I haven't added much to Bob's basic rabbit and rice diet just a little sweet potato and some green beans. Bob too loves veggies, sometimes I give him a raw broccoli flowerette and he thinks it's Christmas, go figure. He'll also try to steal the cooked sweet potato out of the fridge. Makes you wonder if they know that protein foods are what cause their problems. Just a thought with the rice. Are you cooking it really, really well? Almost gluggy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Bob started showing signs of environmental allergies [skin, runny eyes, sneezing] at 9 weeks of age and the food intolerances started not long after that. [diahrrea, vomiting, gas, gas, gas and not eating]. Chicken was the first food I neededto eliminate which makes sense as all the puppy kibbles have chicken, then he became intolerant of beef at about age 14m, kangaroo at 2 years. So far he's been doing well on rabbit since last Christmas, fingers crossed that it will last for a while yet, or hopefully he won't develop an intolerance to it at all. With the turkey, he may have had something with turkey when he was a young pup that I've forgotten about of course. Sounds like my Zayda girl, she came home at 7 weeks and was already shredding her self Yeah, it is possible he had something with turkey when he was younger. Have you had him tested for the environmental allergies? Very unusual for them to keep developing at the later ages like that. You have a one in a million!! Re: the treats the two easiest things I have found are to get meat they are fine with and boil it until just cooked. Or get it minced and roll into balls, then microwave. They stick together like meat balls and you just pull apart as needed. That's the simplest whilst on elimination and I still do a lot of treats this way. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zayda_asher Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 How's Raf doing? Hope all is well... Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Ok has been awhile since we had an update and we were tracking ok til today when Raf’s bowel motions went considerably down hill. For the last 5.5 days he’s been on turkey and rice with some homeopathics, digestive enzymes, probiotics and aloe vera juice. His last bowel motion before today was Sunday which had shape, was somewhat firm and a reddish/mustard colour. This morning his motion was mustard in colour, quite soft and had little shape. This afternoon I came home to a poo that basically was a little bit of diaorehha and 2/3 jelly. Raf was very distressed poor thing. As was I to find him in such a state. I was definitely not expecting his motions to worsen rather than improve. Especially in the space of a few hours. Since this past weekend Raf has also had consistently watery eyes essentially all day (except during sleep) and has been scratching them quite regularly. I have been bathing his eyes several times a day with warm salty water but it seems to have had no effect. His eyes are also now puffy, I would assume from the scratching. His energy levels are also quite low as compared to normal. He is well hydrated and has been drinking/weeing as per normal. I am going back to my vet on Friday (he won’t be on til then). I haven’t been back to see him since the initial colitis diagnosis where he gave me a course of Metrogyl. As a newbie to the whole colitis issue I take it its time to ask for a faecal test and possibly more? Any advice greatly appreciated. I am one very worried and upset mum right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Hi Peigirl, yep it is time to ask for faecal analysis and referral to internal medicine specialist as the illness is not improving. After losing my girl to Inflammatory Bowel Disease last year I now know what symptons to watch for etc. Wishing you and your poor furkid all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Thanks Inspector Rex. When you say 'internal medicine specialist' exactly what sort of specialist are you talking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 So sorry to hear Raf is worse Goodluck at the vet and I hope you get to the bottom of this Have you spoken to Raf's breeder? There might be something hereditary or some advise they can give, or they could just be a shoulder to cry on Let me know if there is anything I can do to help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applepei Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I was also going to suggest talking to Raf's breeder. The Shar Pei genepool over here in WA is still quite small and depending on the breeder they should be able to help you as they may be familiar with this type of problem in there lines. I would also say that this has been going on far to long and probably is very distressing for yourself and Raf especially with all the trips to the vets etc so the breeder should also assume some type of responsibility for this. Did Raf come with a health gaurantee? Is your vet Dr Stephen Ried in Ascot if not I suggest a visit to him as he is a Shar Pei specialist in WA. Also I would suggest the Dr Jeff Vidt website, an american based Shar pei specialist vet...you may be able to email him directly with your case hsitory for his advice. I am based in WA and may be able to help if you need it....PM me Apple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Raf is not a papered Pei and therefore has no health guarantee. His mother is a papered pedigree from a breeder in Perth (Southern River I believe?). His father is a non papered Pei (healthy and active 8 year old when the litter was conceived). Flaming me now for not buying a papered pup won’t help Raf or me so please refrain if you feel so inclined. Our vet is Stephen Reid at Ascot. He has been seeing Raf since he was 12 weeks so he his very familiar with our history. I also know two of Raf’s brothers see Dr Reid so I will ask after them too. Shy of waiting to see Dr Reid on Friday I’m not really sure what to do aside from the status quo. Appreciate the offers of help peibe and applepei. If I have a Pei question I will aim them your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 An "internal medicine specialist" specialises in the field of gastrointestinal issues such as colitis and IBD, among others. Whomever you see will probably recommend an endoscopy( that is what my beloved Maggie had to have) and they take biopsies from the walls of the bowel and intestines. PM me if you want to chat as I totally know what you are going through. Sending Good vibes your way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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