Figure 8 Training - He's A Bit Wide

[Gamby]

Hi

I've searched for topics on Figure 8 training and can't find any.

Gambit is heeling wide when doing the figure 8 exercise. He's not too wide but as he's a working dog he's checking out what is happening in the area around him.

How do I get him to come around quickly when I'm closer to the pole and he's on the outside?

Looking forward to reading the suggestions

[Lablover]

Gamby,

Does Gambit "check out" other distractions at other times?

[Gamby]

Gamby,

Does Gambit "check out" other distractions at other times?

Yes he does.

I need to continually get him to look at me. He does but he's still checks on things around him.

He was attacked a few weeks ago from behind. He never knew what hit him but he knows is was a black and tan dog.

I feel this could be another reason why he is sticky-beaking and looses focus.

What else can I do as a fun exercise to get him to follow me around without worrying about what is happening in the area.

He is such a sticky beak when doing his sit/downs also. He checks out any movement. He's only got up one during his sit/downs and that was because he could smell the lady who owned the dog that attacked him.

Do I go back to basics and start the heeling on a big arc and bring him in slowly?

Wendy

[m-j]

Hi

I would start by giving a rapid fire of treats every step while going around the post, making sure he is in position when the treat is being put into his mouth, even if you use a marker(don't hold your hand too far out, slide it down your leg). Move your hand back into the normal position after each treat. You then gradually wean off the treats, you may also have to reinforce the straight bit also every now and then as the rest of the fig8 might break down, if you don't.

I was stewarding at trials today and you could tell the dogs that had been heavily reinforced for the outside turn they would get all enthusiastic but instantly lost animation/focus once the turn had finished.

hth

cheers

M J

Edited July 23, 2006 by m-j

[Kavik]

My club does something interesting for figure 8s - it seems counter intuitive

Do fast pace when your dog is on the inside leg and then slow pace when the dog is on the outside. I know it sounds completely opposite to what you should do, but what should happen is that the dog will start to push the turn and come in closer in anticipation of the fast pace leg ahead. It does work, I've tried it with Diesel.

[Herr Rottweiler]

The most important thing here is to go back to basic with him and start improving the focus under distraction. If he is stimulated externally he wont give you the attention you need therefore he will always stray wide as he can't see the turns comming up.

You need to stimulate your dog to be more motivated to you and what you have on offer. Once you have this under control during heavy distraction then start doing your figure 8's again.

There's no point in training him to do something that he's doing poorly

[whatevah]

I agree with Herr Rottie, I would work on just normal heeling, and once I got good focus with that, I would then working on figure of 8 with witches hats, then go onto working with people, lots of reinforcement with food, then gradually phase the food out.

[Gamby]

Thanks for the suggestions

Will start on them from tomorrow.

Have entered Gambit in CCD at the VCA Obedience Trial to be held at KCC Park on 5 August.

Will let you know how he went.

Wendy

[whatevah]

How many passes have you got to get for the title? We are going to enter Novice for the Gorder Setter club trial.

[Gamby]

How many passes have you got to get for the title? We are going to enter Novice for the Gorder Setter club trial.

Gambit hasn't any passes yet. He was truamatised at Geelong's Obed Trial a few weeks ago.

After that he's really worried about black & tan dogs. He will even walk on the other side of me if we come to a dog/s when we are walking.

He's doesn't show fear it is his actions that let me know he's not too sure of any situation.

It is so sad, as he loves the intereaction with dogs and humans

He passed his Merit assessment at GODC on Sunday with 123/130 so I'm hoping he is understaning what is expected of him in the obedience ring.

[poodlefan]

If a dog is working wide (but otherwise has focus), I generally look to see what the handler is doing in terms of body language.. when you round the post, where are you looking Gamby.. what are your shoulders telling the dog in terms of where you are going.

Try looking at the post (if its a person look at their ear from the middle of the figure 8... focus on the posts ear on the side you are going.. when you go round the post, look at the other ear until past them and then focus ahead... see if it makes a difference. It often does.

Also watch your footwork.. I don't change cadence doing figures 8.. .same tempo used I just change the length of my stride..smaller steps when dog is on outside of me so he doesn't have to rush.. longer steps when on inside. I find this helps to keep the dog moving smoothly.

[leopuppy04]

Hi Gamby,

I've been naughty and haven't read all the posts so my apologies if i'm doubling up!

As for heeling normally - I assume that Gambit is 'food motivated' *g* but this can also work with toys. Start right back at the start (don't worry, it won't take you long to get back again), and heel for 1 step and if his attention is on you reward by throwing the food to your left. Then walk 2 steps, reward (no need to get him to sit again), 3 steps reward etc,etc. Continue this until you can walk approx 100paces. If you lose Gambits attention - go back to the beginning (ie: if you loose his attention at 15paces, go back to 10 - not 0!). This really helped with my boy, as well as doing static pos and getting him to maintain position. My problem is the lead, simply coz I don't train with it *g*!

As for the fig. 8 - find a couple of football posts and 'play motorbikes'... hehe it is a great game! When you go around the pole, use your shoulders to bring the dog around, without looking at him. so if you are going around (dog on outside) bring your left shoulder around as though you were riding a motorbike (best description i've ever heard), likewise going around with dog on inside, drop your left shoulder and bring your right shoulder around. When you come out of it, toss some food infront of you. You can make it into a game if you like, particularly for the outside as it makes the dog want to 'beat' you round. I then run to the next pole (sometimes I go normal pace, but dog must always maintain contact and pos.) and do either inside/outside. Found it really worked for me, and Leo loves the game. He also loves heeling a lot more now too - i've just gotta remember to keep the 'trial' ring fun!!!! hehe - darn nerves!

[whatevah]

I also would not be in a rush to trial Gambit, get him to the stage where you are 200% sure he is going to pass, you don't want the dog stressed out this early. I would be spending a couple of months working at the problems, before trialling again. I didn't trial Moses till he was 3 years old!!! But did a few club comps and club tests before hand.

[Lablover]

He was truamatised at Geelong's Obed Trial a few weeks ago.

After that he's really worried about black & tan dogs. He will even walk on the other side of me if we come to a dog/s when we are walking.

This puts another slant on the subject. Make sure you do everything possible so he gains his confidence back.

[Lablover]

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...c=67199&hl=

[Tibbiemax71]

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...c=67199&hl=

I feed the dog just after coming around the post with you nearest the post and the dog on the outside, Let him know you have the food, I keep my left hand up near my belly with the food in it then as you come around the post as long as the the dog is with you and watching you give him the food just as you start to straighten up, also if you halt at the next post give him food then, I do it at fast pace also, but shorten your stride as you go around the post with the dog on the outside, if your dog is ball/toy mad you can reward him with the ball as you straighten up, you will of course have to get the ball off him before you continue the fig. 8 then as you come around the outside post give him the ball again, do this a couple of times then maybe do the whole fig. 8 before giving him the ball, make it fun and exciting and positive and try not to look back at him while making the turn as it will make him wider and talk to him in an excited voice to keep his attention. I use these methods with my dog and she does a lovely fig. 8, has her attention on me all the time.

[Sparty]

did it happen sunday?? saturday seemed to go really smoothly and there was a lot of dogs preformed really well LOL tho the 1st dog in the afternoon crapping on the turn of the fig 8 i could have done without hehe

[whatevah]

I recon they should have moved the figure of 8, my dog won't walk over where a dog has crapped and shied away from it.

[Gamby]

did it happen sunday?? saturday seemed to go really smoothly and there was a lot of dogs preformed really well LOL tho the 1st dog in the afternoon crapping on the turn of the fig 8 i could have done without hehe

Hi Sparthy

No it was Saturday between the AM & PM Trials.

Gambit's biggest problem was the marker that Frank Valestro used in the Sunday PM trial.

Gambit was doing a lovely recall but veered off to my side because he saw the marker and went to it.

He's done target training so it looks like I need to get him to understand that he goes to markers only when I send him.

I also need to take more notice of what is on the ground and make sure his recall is done the end where nothing has been put on the ground.

Wendy

[whatevah]

When I did my recall at the trial, I actually went to the other side of the starting post, away from the dog crap, because I knew that would cause him to veer away.