Sept13th Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) All the puppy pre-schools around my area only take puppies at the starting age of 8-12 weeks...of course they haven't had their 2nd vacs by then. Is puppy pre-school worth the risk of parvo virus?? We booked in at our vet for our 11 week old pups first session for this week-but it's been cancelled till next week due to 2 puppies arriving at the vet today with Parvo! It would be horrible if our little boy got it. Edited July 17, 2006 by Sept13th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veanna Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 This is something that I worry about to, would love to hear the responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Personally i get my ups out from eight weeks but i carry them and do not let them on the ground i wouldnt take a puppy to anywhere social until second vaccs is done but i do want them to see the worl what i have found is by experiencing the world for four weeks from the safety and comfort f my arms when we do go onto the ground they are very confident with everything I will allow them to say hi to a very safe dog from my lap though but only a dog i know is good with pups and has had all nedles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikle Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 (edited) All the puppy pre-schools around my area only take puppies at the starting age of 8-12 weeks...of course they haven't had their 2nd vacs by then. Is puppy pre-school worth the risk of parvo virus?? We booked in at our vet for our 11 week old pups first session for this week-but it's been cancelled till next week due to 2 puppies arriving at the vet today with Parvo! It would be horrible if our little boy got it. I am starting Douglas at his first Puppy preschool today. My vet has told me it would be fine. He has had 2 vaccinations. I have not yet heard a story on DOL of a puppy coming down with parvo from puppy preschool. If anyone does know of such a thread.. I would REALLY like to read it. I am worried about the Parvo threat from PP but he is not yet being walked or taken out in public (outside of the doors of my car) and if my vet feels that PP is safe, I am more than happy to go. Doug really needs some dog socialisation skills and I think waiting the 4 weeks til he has had his 3rd vaccination is leaving it too long. (he has had 2 C5's and is waiting on a C3). I know how you feel. Its a very very hard choice to make. I have had heard so many different contradicting opinions on the matter and have chosen to go with the opinion of my vet because she is the one with training. I hope I have made the right decision. Goodluck with your boy! Edited July 18, 2006 by bikle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 If the vet has seen 2 cases of parvo i wouldnt be taking my pup & would be very cautious of the subarian area at present. As to puppy preschool in perth,canine cough is going around badly at present & i wouldnt be going to the vets unless it was an emergency & even for vaccs i would leave dog in car until your turn. Some vets have actually cancelled there PP at present because of the canine cough issue at present. Most PP arent run by the vets but vet staff some PP trainers are not qualified & can cause more issues than good .It has become a business opportunity for many vets but they dont give you a qualified trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikle Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 If the vet has seen 2 cases of parvo i wouldnt be taking my pup & would be very cautious of the subarian area at present.As to puppy preschool in perth,canine cough is going around badly at present & i wouldnt be going to the vets unless it was an emergency & even for vaccs i would leave dog in car until your turn. Some vets have actually cancelled there PP at present because of the canine cough issue at present. Most PP arent run by the vets but vet staff some PP trainers are not qualified & can cause more issues than good .It has become a business opportunity for many vets but they dont give you a qualified trainer. thats all fair enough - but I don't understand what I, as a new puppy owner am supposed to do. Everyone talks of the importance of socialisation but I understand that my pup's safety is more important. Am I supposed to wait until my pup is 16 weeks old before I socialise him? I understand KC is going crazy here in Perth but why would my vet risk the safety of my pup for the $50 fee she gets (50 for 4 weeks and we get a bag of food). It can't be for the money. She wouldn't make a cent. It may encourage us to use that surgery for our pup in the future, but even so, is that enough of a gain for her to put our pups in danger? I am SO SO confused. Why would vets be encouraging Puppy Preschool if they thought it would be a danger? I am so worried about this issue and don't know who to believe. This vaccination issue has driven me bonkers. My breeder swears my pup should now be immune because he has had 2 C5's but my vet says no. I have heard contradicting opinions on the importance of socialisation, of the risk of catching a disease - on EVERYTHING. I have started NUMEROUS threads asking peoples opinions and listened intently on threads started by others. I have talked to my breeder and a few different vets. And for all that - i am more confused than when I started. Sorry to hijack the thread -. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sept13th Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Thanks for everyones comments. Both my boyfriend and I love our little boy and don't want to risk anything bad like parvo esp. since it seems very common in my surrounding suburbs at the moment. So we've decided to cancel puppy pre-school and find a proffessional dog trainer to go to once he's had his 12 week vac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Bikle its up to you but many vets have started on the puppy preschool fad because it is extra dollars especially when your not getting a qualified person taking the classes. Any person could run PP but if the intercation is done wrong & the instructor isnt able to intervene & assist then yes your $50 is wasted. Most classes are up to 10 dogs so thats $500 for 4 weeks so they do make money as the product donated is the product that vets sells which may not be what your breeder has recommend.Some vets solely promote a certain brand & willpush that at these classes but if it isnt what your breeder suggested it isnt much value to you. I would be wanting to now what the qualifactions are of the instructor etc etc PP is about teaching you how to let your puppy socialize ,how to read body language etc etc,if the instructor hasnt a clue then what will you learn. As i said KC is very bad at present in perth & quite a few vets have cancelled there classes due to the risk to puppies. I would phone your vet up as an enquiry & see how many cases they have seen. In the end its solely up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 any puppy is at risk if it hasn't had it parvo shot. why anyone would risk their puppy is beyond my comprehension......for a lousy puppy pre school?....no thanks you should imagine that your puppy is the only one in the whole world that is or will be, vaccinated......& don't take it to places other dogs frequent until it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I used to take my babies to a PP in Canberra and also go there as part of my business and talk about grooming on one of the nights. This clinic was up to it's one hundred and fifth PP graduation, at the last one I attended. That's over 800 puppies and no puppy contracted parvo from that PP. I personally socialise mine from 8 weeks, it's my own choice and I have not had a puppy catch a disease. There has been plenty of debate in the past about the need for early socialisation. I feel that babies are best getting out there and getting to know the world , from an early age, others do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codydog Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I am one of those Vet nurses who run puppy preschools at a vet clinic. I have completed my dog trainers course and train at other centres. Please don't assume that all Vet Clinics have trainers that aren't qualified. Definately ask the clinic before attending though because I do agree that a bad trainer can destroy your dog for life. Puppies are 90% vaccinated after their 2nd vaccination, so the risk of them contracting diseases is very small. I wouldn't recommended taking a puppy to a clinic for puppy school if the clinic has had recent cases of Parvo through it. With that said, once the clinic have cleaned every surface properly with the disinfectants they use for various diseases, then it is safe to return. It's a proven fact that the critical period of socailisation for a dog is between the ages of 8 -16 weeks thereabouts. So if you wait until your puppy is fully vaccinated before socailising them, you miss that small window of opportunity. I have run Puppy school classes for 5 years now and have never had a puppy contract any diseases. The clinic where I run it don't make a cent for puppy school as they employ me to do it, so it isn't a money making scheme for all clinics. They like to have classes run there so the dog actually enjoys coming to the clinic rather than needing to be dragged in by there owners. Everyone owner needs to make the decision between early socialisation for their pup or isolation for the risk of contracting a disease, but from my experience, there isn't much of a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 (edited) Sept13th, the answer is to socialise, socialise and more socialisation!!! Puppies go through a "critical socialiation period" which is the first 16 weeks of their life. This is when they need to learn EVERYTHING about the world around them, meeting other puppies, people, traffic, noises, machinery, children etc etc. Failing to socialise a puppy during the critical socialistion period will result in a puppy who may have fearful tendencies to any or all of the above and regardless of what anybody says, you CANNOT make up for lost time. Anything after this is purely remedial! Further, at this young age, puppie's brains are like sponges so if you aren't training them, they are certainly training themselves ie. learning all the wrong things/bad habits. Unfortunately, I too often see and have to deal with the results of incomplete socialisation in puppies and believe me, in some cases it's not pleasant for both dog and owner. Also further, parvo is an airborne virus which does not represent itself as a green blob on the wall. Here are the many different ways your puppy is able to catch parvo, even if he is isolated at home: 1. Birds can fly in and bring it into your yard 2. Wind blowing particles into your yard and home 3. You can walk over it and bring it home 4. You can drive over it with your car and bring it home. 5. The best place to catch parvo is at the vet's surgery - well known fact and often quoted by many respected animal behaviourists! The only sure way to protect your puppy from parvo is to keep in in an incubator - which quite obviously you won't do. With all this in mind, you need to weigh up the pros and cons of both and IMO, the risk of fear aggression due to lack of early socialisation far outweighs this and is defintely a higher probability. As long as your puppy is healthy and well nourished and comes from healthy parents, then the risk of contracting parvo is minimal. Ensure that you only socialise your puppy around other vaccinated dogs and just for safe measures, keep him away from off-lead parks. I would highly recommend you purchase the book "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson - she gives some excellent information about the puppies critical socialisation and also recounts the results of puppies deprived of this. My recommendation to you is to find a good training school who offers puppy preshool and the like - and do this now!! Edited July 23, 2006 by Kelpie-i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Great post Kelpie-i! Having previously been involved in dog rescue and having had many years of instructing at our local obedience club, I've often seen the result of the lack socialisation in dogs and their owners lives. This is not a minor thing or something that you can play catch-up with when the pup is 16 or 20 weeks old - it's too late. Some of owners of these dogs are unprepared or unable to put the time and effort into these dogs, which are then rehomed or destroyed. Often the rehoming is part of a downward spiral in care for the dogs. One's which get into that cycle tend to be rehomed 2 to 3 times into worse environments each time before being surrended to the pound. Wolfie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sept13th Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 Sept13th, the answer is to socialise, socialise and more socialisation!!!Puppies go through a "critical socialiation period" which is the first 16 weeks of their life. This is when they need to learn EVERYTHING about the world around them, meeting other puppies, people, traffic, noises, machinery, children etc etc. Failing to socialise a puppy during the critical socialistion period will result in a puppy who may have fearful tendencies to any or all of the above and regardless of what anybody says, you CANNOT make up for lost time. Anything after this is purely remedial! Further, at this young age, puppie's brains are like sponges so if you aren't training them, they are certainly training themselves ie. learning all the wrong things/bad habits. Unfortunately, I too often see and have to deal with the results of incomplete socialisation in puppies and believe me, in some cases it's not pleasant for both dog and owner. Also further, parvo is an airborne virus which does not represent itself as a green blob on the wall. Here are the many different ways your puppy is able to catch parvo, even if he is isolated at home: 1. Birds can fly in and bring it into your yard 2. Wind blowing particles into your yard and home 3. You can walk over it and bring it home 4. You can drive over it with your car and bring it home. 5. The best place to catch parvo is at the vet's surgery - well known fact and often quoted by many respected animal behaviourists! The only sure way to protect your puppy from parvo is to keep in in an incubator - which quite obviously you won't do. With all this in mind, you need to weigh up the pros and cons of both and IMO, the risk of fear aggression due to lack of early socialisation far outweighs this and is defintely a higher probability. As long as your puppy is healthy and well nourished and comes from healthy parents, then the risk of contracting parvo is minimal. Ensure that you only socialise your puppy around other vaccinated dogs and just for safe measures, keep him away from off-lead parks. I would highly recommend you purchase the book "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson - she gives some excellent information about the puppies critical socialisation and also recounts the results of puppies deprived of this. My recommendation to you is to find a good training school who offers puppy preshool and the like - and do this now!! Thanks Kelpie-i. Yes I do not want to be over protective of my little pup LOL and we don't want him to be scared of other dogs Just that 6 puppies were at that vet last week with Parvo...to me the risk was too high. I respect our vet very much as they did cancel it for last week due to the fact it would be too risky for the puppies attending the vet for puppy school. I socialised our pup last week with 2 other dogs that I know are vaccinated and healthy and he gets his 12 week vac this week so next week we will be going to the park to play with as many friendly looking dogs as possible. And we are hoping to go to a dog trainer soon as well Thanks everyone for their comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collielover Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 One of my friends bought purebred pup, 2 days after she brought him home he was in the vets with parvo. It got to the point that they were told to consider putting him down, he was in the vets for over a week with only a drip keeping him alive....no one thought he would make it. The breeder, with the best intentions, had taken the pup to a show with her a couple of days before my friend picked him up to test he was okay with young children, as at the time she had very young children. The pup had had 2 of the 3 injections. She kept him mainly crated at the show, and only had him out briefly to let some children pat him. Just in that short instant, the pup had contracted the disease (it came out later on that quite a few dogs at that show had also contracted parvo, the vet's other practise in another city had had over 50 cases coming in the next weekend of dogs that went to that show). No one was to blame, it was just an awful situation and thankfully the dog survived. But it really opened my eyes to how easily this disease can be contracted, and in the future if I ever get a puppy again, I would not take them anywhere until the third injection. I have seen that the risk was too great, and the emotional turmoil that family went through, most of the time expecting that their little pup wouldn't make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I would be asking the vet if there is any connection with the pups with parvo.Personnally i would be avoiding the park if parvo is that bad in the area at present .The park is where many unvaccinated dogs roam plus alot of dog faeces which is the issue. Even after his 12 week vacc they will suggest 10 days before doing heavy duty outside actitivities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Am I supposed to wait until my pup is 16 weeks old before I socialise him? wait until the immunisation has time to be effective. a 16 week old puppy is still a baby. i was talking to a fellow breeder/exhibitor on the w/e about this very subject. she said she wont even put her puppies on the floor at the vets. & she's a vet nurse. after all, where do all the sick dogs go?... to the vets..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Collielover, parvo has an incubation period...I think it's 7-10 days if my memory serves me right. I say this because if the puppy in your recount presented with symptoms straight away, then he wouldn't have caught parvo at the dog show. It could very well have been at the breeders or even at the vet surgery. Sept13, I would avoid dog parks like the plague as you don't know what sort of dogs could be visiting. Apart from staying away from parvo infested faeces, there may be aggressive dogs that frequent the parks and you pup stands high risk of being attacked/bullied. For your pup's sake, seek out a structured training/socialisation program from a professional school or club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collielover Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Kelpei, the pup went to the show Saturday, owners picked him up following Thursday, 2 days later on Saturday was showing symptoms (started vommiting), went to vet and was given antibiotics, by Monday went downhill (vomitting and bloody diareoagh (sp?)) very fast and was put into hospital and for the next week. Was most definately from the show, many dogs came down with it from that show, and I beleive the breeder also lost some other pups from that litter to the disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sept13th Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 (edited) I really like the Animal Hospital that we were going to take him to do puppy pre-school. The vet and vet nurses are really nice there and they all fell in love with our little guy. I had decided not to take our pup there for the 12 week vaccination, purely because the vet has had a lot of cases of parvo. I am trying to find a mobile vet that will come to our home but I have had no luck. (we live to far north of Perth I think) But maybe I should just go to that vet and make sure he stays in my arms. They assured me that any pups with parvo are totally isolated. I guess I got to think about the old saying though..."Better to be safe than sorry" Kelpie-i, in regards to "for your pup's sake, seek out a structured training/socialisation program from a professional school or club", We have been looking for some in our area for the past week, fingers crossed we can find one soon. We have a beagle so we undertand he needs some prof. training. Thanks for everyones advice Edited July 24, 2006 by Sept13th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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