Foooooooooooooood...

[GLAMACHIC]

hi everyone,

i havent been on for a while ive been having internet problems

and i have missed all your advice and new topics..i have so much to catch up on!

i have a question that my husband and i have been debating about..

for those of you who dont remember, we have a baby pup chiuhaha x pug (electra)

when we bought her (from the pet shop - yes yes i heard this is a bad thing to do ) and we were

given this meatloaf stuff, lamb & veggies and she quite liked it. the meatloaf roll lasted us a week.

we were then told by someone to give her this puppy kibble stuff, they look like little nuts that

i give to her in warm water, i feed her these once in the morning and once at night becuase apparently

they expand in the stomach and keep them fuller for longer... BUT the poor thing seems to be still hungry.

she has now learned where the kitchen is and sniifs around the floor and jumps and whimpers around there

kitchen bench, poor thing is still hungry.

my uncle, who has 2 miniature pinschers told me he has never fed his dogs food from a tin can, he has always

fed them chicken wings and necks .. now my girlfriend also boils chicken wings for her pomeranian pup and she has no

problems either ...

now here is the question that my husband and i have different opinions about...

my husband seems to believe that chicken wings and necks are very dangerous for puppy dogs as the chicken

bones are poisonous and that the bones in chicken wings and necks are too thin and might be like splinters in our

pups throat....can someone please please help me here...i want to know if i should try giving her chicken necks or wings.

im a little confused....heeeeeeeeeelp!

[Natashja]

I have a miniature poodle pup who is now 6 months old and he has been brought up on a diet that’s been split 45% kibble and 55% BARF diet (please take the time to look into BARF at it is fantastic for their health).

We fed ADVANCE Puppy Rehydratable until 5 months of age. For the last month he’s been on ADVANCE Puppy Growth.

He also gets one teaspoon of flaxseed oil a day (he just licks it off a spoon). We started with a tiny drop of flaxseed oil the day we got him and just built it up over time.

Our pup was 8 weeks old when we got him and for the first few weeks we watched him like a hawk whenever he was eating. We still check up on him whenever he gets raw meaty bones, but he’s never even looked close to choking – chicken wings, chicken necks and brisket bones included. That said, he is a dainty eater and doesn't guzzle.

If I were you, I would NEVER, EVER, EVER feed my dog cooked bones as they can splinter, not only causing the dog to choke but also getting wedged in the palate.

Edited to fix links

Edited July 13, 2006 by Natashja

[GLAMACHIC]

hi nat,

thanks for your advice.

the puppy kibble we are feeding electra is the exact same brand as your link but its a purple bag, im not sure as to which one it is tho.

FOUND IT ON THAT SITE ... http://www.advancepetfoods.com.au/products/?product=10

my husband watches her eat while i cook his dinner..hehe..

he says to me, she either looooves the food or is really hungry..i seem to think she is really hungry coz she sniffs around the kitchen whimpering and asking for more food!!!

i have looked at the BARF diet. i feel as though maybe dogs might need a bit more than just veggies. i know if my husband doesnt eat meat every night he feels like he hasnt eaten, and his body neeeds it...i know its disgusting! i cant eeat that much meat...but men & dogs are the same!!! (have u seen the new show on the lifestyle channel on foxtel .. hehe)

where can i get some more info about this barf diet?

what else can i feed the poor bubby, she seems really hungry with this kibble stuff, maybe im not giving her enuff, the bag said to give her 40 grams a day of this stuff, but she wants to eat 40 grams per serve!!

no wonder i can see ribs .. she needs a greek diet like mine...haha

Edited July 13, 2006 by GLAMACHIC

[Guest Stevie'sGreat]

I'm not sure how to put in a link but there's a very long discussion on chicken wings under the General section (last post was late last night).

Chicken issues seem to boil down (sorry) to:

* Never ever cooked bones (red meat or chicken)

* Never drumsticks - there's a very thin sharp bone in them

* Raw wings ok, just the tip to chew on if a very small dog - may need supervision

* Raw necks ok unless they're being gulped down whole by a large dog (like mine!) - may need supervision

* Raw 'Carcases' (the leftover frame of the chicken after the shop has taken off the rest of the meat) ok, especially for larger dogs

* Boiled chicken meat is ok, just not the bones.

Edited to change location of chicken wing discussion because I still can't work out links.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Stevie'sGreat

[Natashja]

Go to the Health/Nutrition/Grooming forum and do a search under BARF, you'll come up with heaps of links.

Here's one to get you started: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...c=62695&hl=

Also, check out:

http://www.drianbillinghurst.com/what_is_barf.html

http://www.ozpets.com.au/health/articles/HC10013.shtml

http://www.bonsah.com/shop/

[GLAMACHIC]

ok so u think i should give them breast instead of chicken wings....hmmm everyone does seem to have a diff opinion...my cousin told me to never give breast...

what if i crush the chicken necks, coz arent they cartlidge? they're not bones ...

i might start reading about this barf diet thing, and print it out for my hubbie to read to...so i should keep her on this kibble stuff and slowly get her onto the barf diet when her teeth grow a bit more, she still nips at us but it does not hurt.

thats another thing, how do u stop the dog biting us...when ever she does and it hurts i tap her nose and tell her no biting and that she was naughty and i put her in the laundry for 2 minutes (like nanny frost says to do with kids..hehe)

[SparkyTansy]

Chicken wings, bashed chicken necks (under supervision) and any raw or cooked chicken meat (cooked meat OFF the bone!!!!!!!!!!) Please tell your friend to stop boiling the necks for her pom pup, and cooked bones cause splinters. You can give them raw just supervise!

BARF diet is both meat and veggies but it is more closely related to the type of diet animals would eat in the wild (canines are omnivores, like us, and generally get most of their plant matter from the stomachs of their kill). A wolf would not cook his meat or any plant matter he eats nor would he dehydrate the whole lot into a biscuit. The BARF diet is good but you must thoroughly research it and do not go into it blind...

If your pup is losing weight (too many ribs are not good) you will need to feed her a little more. If your pup has not been wormed then you may need to look into this as it could be a cause for hunger and weight loss. (you can sometimes suspect worms if the pup has a rounded tummy)

Lastly if she is wormed and you bulk up her food a little, and she is still not gaining weight you should take her to the vet as there may be something wrong with her.

You will get some good advice in past links on food to feed a pup and quantities. Just do a search.

Good luck with your gorgeous pup!!

[ReXy]

you could feed her chicken breast my bet s she would love it , and it will be quiet expensive for you..lol raw necks and wings are fine.. if you are worried at all,, just cute the tip off the wing u will find she will love chewing ont hem.. also another things is if u are worried about the necks bash them a bit with a meat basher thingy..lol she should also be having raw meaty bones. puppies need to chew and it is good for them.. , my dogs and 1 is a 15 week old pup get a mix of..

chicken necks

wings

lamb offcuts

chicken frames

brisket bones

offal

ox cheek

sardines

eggs

vegies

all raw the only thing i will cook is rice..unless they have our vegie leftovers from dinner, then u have to be carefull what they are getting NO onion at all...

rice

and kibble..

can not stress enough NEVER EVER any cooked bones..

[peibe]

Have you wormed her?

The Advance is a great diet, I would be giving her dry kibble once a day for her teeth not wet food all the time

There is nothing wrong with giving a puppy a chicken wing or neck. Just sit with them while they eat it to make sure they do not choke

[Nekhbet]

The BARF diet is not a solely vegetable diet. More information is given about the veges then the meat portion because of the preparation required. Some veges do not agree with dogs and others, like onions, are dangerous. A bit of garlic though is good for them actually, we have had dogs since I was a baby and all the wog dogs had the odd garlic breath :rolleyes: BARF recommends dogs eat the veges with meat like mince, chicken carcasses, lamb flaps etc. Any bone that doesnt bear the entire weight of the animal (like those massive cow leg bones) can be given freely as part of the meal.

As for meat - anyone that tells you any part of the chicken is not good for them is off their rocker ... maybe the feathers and the organs can be too rich. Chicken necks are bone and cartilage. Wings are mainly bone with meat and the problem can be the fat in them more then anything else. Chicken breast is very expensive and mainly high protein. Necks are great because there is meat, a little fat and bones for calcium. I give my dogs wings, necks and when theyre on special maryland or even whole chickens (theyre big buggers :D ) Also meaty bones are fabulous for keeping dogs teeth clean and breath fresh, I cant remember one dog we owned that needed attention to its teeth.

And as has already been said ... NEVER EVER EVER EVER give a dog ANY cooked bone. I've had to pull out a splinter of roast lamb bone from a dog that the owners thought should enjoy sunday lunch with them. Lucky it was caught in the teeth and not swalled to pierce the stomach. Pierced intestines/stomachs are expensive and deadly. Not worth the risk. If the dog cant manage to chew up the bone, you will find they leave what they cant manage.

Because you have a small breed your only problem is the size of her mouth. Grab a chicken neck and give it a couple of whacks with a rolling pin to flatten it a bit and let her play with it. For her size its probably a whole meal If you get her used to eating fresh meat now it will be better for her in the long run. And yes I consider anything in a can/roll/loaf evil. I frankly dont trust it and i've smelled the aftermath of them too

My dogs diet consist of:

Eagle Pack dry

Chicken necks/maryland/wings

lamb flaps/offcuts

occasional lamb shank

Whatever "falls off" the cutting board when I cut up bulk meat

boiled rice with chopped/ grated mixed veges (carrot, peas, green beans, broccoli, some garlic, lettuce, zuchinni) sprinkled with some Vets All Natural supplement

Just watch the spices European diets are great for us but all that rich food can cause the dog to become really fat (my grandmother feeds their poor little OVER 10KG Jack Russell everything they eat) or digestive problems.

[GLAMACHIC]

very good advice nekhbet

hehe wog dogs..hahaha

garlic breath is ok..i have it everyday...i have it at the moment!!!

i will print out all this info and give it to huubbie too so he can read up...im going to google BARF and book the vet so we can take her and get checked for worms, even tho we worm her, u just never know it could be something else....

im going to buy her chicken necks and start her on boiled rice with veggies....

wat do u think about those frozen veggies u get in the supermarket? u rekon they are any good, or would i have to buy normal ones?

[ReXy]

i think fresh is best.. but if u run out its ok to use frozen i have a few times. i do use peas corn frozen tho coz they love em

[Nekhbet]

If you go to Aldi they have a plain green bag of mixed veges. Its cheap and not just the dodgy offcuts its actually a good mix of veges!

although, a diet of just veges, rice and necks isnt enough for a growing puppy. Keep up the puppy kibble as well whilst growing or buy yourself a complete powder formulated for pups that you can add to the food.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Nekhbet

[GLAMACHIC]

thanks so much

i have sort of written up a daily menu that i am going to start doing as of now for my pup..here goes tell me what i should change and what i should replace please if u can anyone..

MONDAY AM (i go to work til 3 pm)= WET KIBBLE

MONDAY PM (im back by 3 & feed her again) = BOILED RICE WITH VEGGIES (carrots, peas, corn, garlic, green beans)

TUESDAY AM =

TUESDAY PM - RAW MINCE WITH VEGGIES (as above)

WEDNESDAY AM =

WEDNESDAY PM = CHOOK NECKS

THURSDAY AM (again im off to work like mondays) = KIBBLE

THURSDAY PM =

FRIDAY AM = (again work) = KIBBLE

FRIDAY PM =

what else can i give her?

[Nekhbet]

nothing wrong with the dog having kibble in the mornings and the raw food in the evening. Kibble for energy and while she slows down in the evening gives her a chance to munch on the chicken while you are there and digest things calmly.

If you want treats you can bake some dog biscuits (do a search on the forum there are some great recipes) or some carrot sticks. Grab some Schmacos or liver treats, hide them around the living room and teach her to 'search' for it on command. Its knee grazing fun heheheh my Belgian now searches on command easily.

[GLAMACHIC]

sounds good thanks nekhbet.

does it matter if i give her the rice n veggies at dinner time?

i have decided to give her the kibble in the mornings like an energy booster, get her metabolism going, and i will rotate the rice n veggies, mince/meat n veggies and chook necks over the 7 day period

sound ok for a pup like electra?

ps: we booked her to go see the vet on the 28th of this month.

where do we go to register her and micro chip her? does it cost much?:

what bout snip snip?

[Nekhbet]

since she's so tiny, I would reccomend waiting till she's about 5 months before desexing. Before she has her first season would be good, or just after if she's early.

As for microchip, any vet can do it for you. Although 4 Paws and More on Keilor Park Drive is having a microchipping day and I think its about $25. PM Sagittarius (she owns the store) or see if your local council is running a microchip day. Better done now while the skin is soft.

[GLAMACHIC]

ohh yes good idea...asking the vet

or even go on the local coucil website!

i wanted to also ask..back to the food topic...can i give tomatoes and mushrooms?

[t-time]

Glamachic, I would be trying to get an extra feed into your pup Little breeds don't have big tummies and therefore, if you feed her smaller more frequent meals, she will feel full and content rather than waiting such a long time before feeds and her tummy getting empty and she's really hungry.

Try feeding her at least 3 times a day - morning before you go to work, afternoon tea when you get home and then another feed later in the evening. Even better if you can manage 4 feeds. Provide a little more variety in her food - a lot of kibble does contain cereal fillers which can go right through puppies and then they are still hungry. Do check out the worming situation again.

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with giving your puppy raw chicken or red meat of any type as long as puppy is supervised with the bones. Choking is the ONLY hazard.

Do have a look at the link provided for Dr Billinghurst. And do more research on BARF. This should give your husband a better overview about the diet of dogs. And DO try to convince your friend that she should not be feeding any cooked bones. Yes, potentially expensive operation for a pierced gut - why risk it? Doesn't make any sense why some owners think they can potentially risk their beloved animals' life when there is a much simpler option. Don't cook the bones!!!

Tomatoes and mushrooms are fine (but I have one dog who will absolutely REFUSE to eat tomato ) so get some bolognese into that puppy (minus the onion!)

(And where on earth did you get the PUG idea??!! Last week it was a Chi!! Still guessing??!!)

Edited July 14, 2006 by t-time

[GLAMACHIC]

thanks matey, great advice...

yes we are changing her diet slowly. she loooooooooves rice with veggies and i crushed some garlic in there too..hehe...wog dog.!! love it...

on the 3 days i go to work, i give her the kibble in the mornings, then when i get home anytime between 4 and 5 i will give her the rice with veggies or rice with mince .. then at nite for din din i will give her chook necks, i gave her one yesterday and she ate it in one minute flat (supervised by hubbie of course) ... i mite not give her tomato raw as it has a very high acidity .. maybe i will just chop the mushies for her...i loooove mushies..hehe...im going to ask my vet about the barf diet and see if they can help and i might look on the internet and purchase a couple of books...any suggestions guys?

i just booked her in for microchipping...if anyone lives within the monash city council in victoria....the BURWOOD RSPCA is doing it for $10!!! i couldnt beleive it...go to their site, and u will be able to download a voucher that u must present...what a bargain!

i just had a quik look at her papers, apparently she is chi x pug..hehe..what u rekon she looks like...shes such a character..hehe

ps: how the hell do we teach her not to piddle inside!!!! she knows wat to do when taken outside, but she seems to be very lazy and just piddles anywhere when inside!...ive tapped her nose a couple of times and told her off by saying naughty and she knows what she has done wrong...