My Pet Peeve

[MonElite]

My contract states

The buyer agrees that a basic obedience-training course will be completed with this Dobermann before 18 months of age

It doesnt say where and how. There is a list of clubs, a private trainer recomendation etc.

It also says

Buyer also agrees this Dobermann will not be used as a guard dog for any business. Unless the business is run from the family home and the Dobermanns main purpose is that of family companion part of which may involve being a deterrent of unwanted intruders.

That is amongst all other things.

[Nekhbet]

If you wanted a dog for bitework you SHOULD be socialising like crazy. Any socialisation is good socialisation especially for a dog that will be doing high stress work. I dont like people who keep their dogs locked up except for training sessions ... hurricanes on leads. Bitework dogs need to learn to be non reactive and non fearful to new experiences. The worst thing to do would be to keep it at home all the time.

There are kennels that specialise in these dogs anyway, not every member of a working breed is good enough.

All dogs, irrespective of what you need them for, should have at least basic obedience - being the dog listens and respects your wishes. If thats sitting, staying or dancing a jig I think the point is that the owners are to attend some sort of class that includes a professional dog trainer so they gain experience in raising their dog properly.

Your dog could be attacked on the street, in a park, at the beach ... the point is to go to a responsible training centre. I dont see the point of throwing all the dogs in together to teach them to get along, I know ADT puppy classes are on lead and pups are not just allowed to run riot or mix with larger dogs.

Edited June 27, 2006 by Nekhbet

[jaybeece]

So how do you guys enforce the training requirements? Do you need some form of written proof or do you check in on the dog to see how it's progressing? Are owners allowed to "home school" the dogs if they know what they're doing? I'm not flaming or anything, genuinely curious!

Also, since Jefe's owners brought it up does Schutzhund violate your contract myszka?

It's great to see how much you guys care about the wellbeing of the pups you breed. I wish all pups were sold with the same care and responsibility.

[MonElite]

Also, since Jefe's owners brought it up does Schutzhund violate your contract myszka?

No it doesnt, my breeder did sch work as well. And has been ob instructor for several clubs, had won countless ob awards and had ob champions.

Dont know about enforcing, Im not planning on breaking the agreement so that will not apply to me at all.

[Nekhbet]

I think the contracts 'guard dog' meaning is those dogs left to live alone on an industrial site to look after the yard.

If only all breeders ensured this much care, unfortunately some prospective puppy buyers see this as snobbery and would rather pay more for something they can get off the shelf.

I met one woman who was rather miffed that a breeder in SA took so long to decide if he would sell her a dog (who I know would have his reasons but she was so sour about it). She rushed off and got another similar giant breed - by about 8 months of age the dog had been run over with a 4WD and had its hind leg smashed. She was slightly 'ahh well' about the incident even though it was a while ago ?!?!? BAH humans.

[jaybeece]

I think the contracts 'guard dog' meaning is those dogs left to live alone on an industrial site to look after the yard.

I figured that would probably be the case

[Jeff Jones]

what if I want to train my puppy for schutzhound work... or bite work and I decide social class would go against the training I want to imprint on it, would you not sell a puppy to me? frown.gif

schutzhund clubs have puppy classes

ETA: i cant see too many breeders of dogs that are eligible for schutzhund to be too concerned about there dogs undertaking this type of training over general obedience, most working dog breeders have a purchase price refund for the dog for gaining schutzhund titles

Edited June 27, 2006 by Jeff Jones

[ravensmyst00]

At ADT we have hundreds of those "make a difference" moments where owners get shown techniques to get their dogs under control. Unfortunately, the issue that is annoying me at the moment is, Pure ugly laziness! Just couldn't be bothered, interrupts with my life schedule bone laziness.

My favourite saying is, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". I always give full marks to a person I see train their dog to an Advanced level with any trainer as they have proven their resposibility. Hell, I even give marks to people who just stick with training but the percentage of people who look into training, decide that it's to much, to hard, to cold, to hot, to crowded, to few, to far, to many dogs etc etc.

These people should own a cat or better still, a slug

Now you have to admit that it has been pretty cold lately especially at 8pm at East Doncaster when the rain sets in. LOL. Even Xander gives me a dirty look when he has to go out in the rain.

Its true the amount of people out there that cant be bothered training there dog - there are several bullmastiff owners that praise my boy for how well he handles and keep asking my how I do it. I ask what they do - the best answer I got recently from a new bullmastiff owner was - a book for the training end of things and the local dog park for socialisation. I'm waiting for the day someone's dog has a go at his because he has no control over it.

[J...]

I tend to agree with you - I come from the other side of the fence as a student. With one club I attended it was all on a casual basis. There were a lot there who made some attempt, but still really only showed up one week in four, the dogs never really improved, their owners never really learnt anything and unfortunately, they only seem to rock up for a chat and to ease their guilt over their neglected dog! :rolleyes: Thats when the poor dogs gets the blame "Oh I've been taking Rover to obedience but he still destroys my backyard"

[Herr Rottweiler]

What if I want to train my puppy for schutzhound work... or bite work and I decide social class would go against the training I want to imprint on it, would you not sell a puppy to me?

Also, a three month old rotti would be entering its first fear period. If I enroll the puppy in this class you want and some dog attacks my puppy, would you give me my money back if the dogs becomes fear aggressive towards other dogs?

If we agreed on terms up front, I would sign them into the contract but I don't see how any social class would not benefit a puppy unless it was performed by a group of idiots. I witnessed a group of vet nurses doing a social puppy class once and it was by far the most disgraceful class I have seen to date. No talent and arrogance is a potent combination :D

Puppies should be enrolling at around 10 weeks. I tell my puppy owners that they need to spend 2 weeks bonding and social work around the home then off to puppy class with an approved trainer.

Your dog could be attacked on the street, in a park, at the beach ... the point is to go to a responsible training centre. I dont see the point of throwing all the dogs in together to teach them to get along, I know ADT puppy classes are on lead and pups are not just allowed to run riot or mix with larger dogs.

Any idiot that allows puppies to run riot and dominate each other once again just goes to show how ignorant and stupid they really are. Sigh, so many dog trainers, so few good ones.

So how do you guys enforce the training requirements? Do you need some form of written proof or do you check in on the dog to see how it's progressing? Are owners allowed to "home school" the dogs if they know what they're doing? I'm not flaming or anything, genuinely curious!

Funnily enough, not much happens in the greater dog training community that doesn't cross my desk. The owners of the two pups that I took back both thought they were far enough away from me to pull the wool over my eyes. They got a shock when I turned up on

the door steps with a crate.

Now you have to admit that it has been pretty cold lately especially at 8pm at East Doncaster when the rain sets in. LOL. Even Xander gives me a dirty look when he has to go out in the rain.

Its true the amount of people out there that cant be bothered training there dog - there are several bullmastiff owners that praise my boy for how well he handles and keep asking my how I do it. I ask what they do - the best answer I got recently from a new bullmastiff owner was - a book for the training end of things and the local dog park for socialisation. I'm waiting for the day someone's dog has a go at his because he has no control over it.

When I started training it was so cold that frost would settle in around us. I know that we're all different and prepared to tolerate different elements but I figure if i have the pets, I'm responsible to give them the best oportunity possible. I expect no less from my puppy buyers especially considering that I breed Rottweilers.

I tend to agree with you - I come from the other side of the fence as a student. With one club I attended it was all on a casual basis. There were a lot there who made some attempt, but still really only showed up one week in four, the dogs never really improved, their owners never really learnt anything and unfortunately, they only seem to rock up for a chat and to ease their guilt over their neglected dog! Thats when the poor dogs gets the blame "Oh I've been taking Rover to obedience but he still destroys my backyard"

Yep, amazing how lazy people always have a scape goat! They desrve to have the dog taken off them and a size ten boot up their ass :rolleyes:

Edited June 27, 2006 by Herr Rottweiler

[Erny]

I did say "Abaracadabara"

But you're right Steve, No wand

I have a wand! :D You can actually use it as a 'target stick' ..... but it could double as a wand. Wanna borrow it? Maybe you could figure out how it works. I've tried "Abaracadabara", but it didn't work. Maybe I'm supposed to wear my red sparkly stiletto's and click my heels three times as well? :rolleyes: Might not get the dog to "sit" .... but would probably make him "look".

[wheres my rock]

i hate the yeah but yeah but pple they always have an excuse yeah but i work long hours yeah but the dog isnt cclean in the house we have a small group that meets to train and unless someone is really ill or the weather s totally feral no one misses a week usually the problem is getting away and going home lol

[J...]

Now you have to admit that it has been pretty cold lately especially at 8pm at East Doncaster when the rain sets in. LOL. Even Xander gives me a dirty look when he has to go out in the rain.

This is probably a little against the grain of the thread.... but I actually preferred the cold sh*tty days because it means that only those who were serious would show up for class, and all the "part-timers" would stay at home.... made for a much better class environment :D

And given it was 10C here today and my dog was still jumping in the puddles..... I really don't think she gives a stuff about how cold it is :rolleyes:

[Lablover]

Herr Rottweiler,

It may be interesting to ask the person, who has no time, if the seller of the puppy/dog had high placement value on the purchaser.

Most people lead very busy lives, except me LOL, working and such and expect a dog to fit in. We live in a "quick fix" world and limited outside life style is the norm. Most parents both work and spare time is often scarce. Unfortunately the family dog most often comes last on the do list, despite their best original intentions.

[Erny]

Herr Rottweiler, It may be interesting to ask the person, who has no time, if the seller of the puppy/dog had high placement value on the purchaser.

Isn't that a bit like saying that someone else is responsible for another's actions? Surely it SHOULD be reasonable to suggest that if someone acquires a puppy/dog they have the time and at least a reasonable portion of dedication towards its upbringing and care?

Not suggesting, for the sake of the pup/dog at least, that the seller shouldn't ask some questions of the purchaser and advise on what might be expected time wise, but really, when it comes down to it, we should be able to reasonably expect the purchaser to have some brains?

[Herr Rottweiler]

Lablover, one thing that I might add there too is that many perspective buyers will lie through their teeth to get a puppy off you if they are determined to get what you have. I see most of them comming, however I was initially fooled by 2.

You can't expect everyone on the planet to have the values that people like us have either. That's relying on perfect world syndrome which we know is totally unrealistic.

[NaturallyWild]

Having breeders like HR with requirements on bringing up dogs is definately a way to help. Unfortunately without there being governement licencing requirements for owning dogs such as minimum training, it comes down to educating the community that initial training will prevent sooooooo many problems further down the track.

At this stage the more trainers and clubs that can build a relationship with vets, breeders, rescue organisations, get into schools to provide talks and even working with pet shops and puppy farmers, to provide a cheap initial service that will educate the owners that if they put in as much time in the beginning that there will be very little issues for the remaining 10-15yrs of their life with the dog.

I think a good option for providers of dogs (ie breeders, rescue organisations etc) is to add a small fee to the cost of the dog which provides a few initial sessions with their local trainers (this is where building good relationships will help).

Unfortunately there are always going to be those that sacrifice the needs of the dog for their own needs (particularly as LL said that we live in an ever growing fast fix, throw away society). It just means we need to get smarter at communicating with these people.

:rolleyes: Thumbs up to HR and all other breeders and trainers that are trying to improve the situation through owner requirements and education. Its a long hard road until something gets enforced through local government.

[Herr Rottweiler]

Thanks for the positive feedback Tim m99. You're very right, it's a long hard road with plenty of crossroads and forks .

One of our trainers the other day were giving some asian clients a bit of a hard time as they were just not interested in much about the dog. In the end she convinced them to give the dog to someone who was going to care about it as the father said, "it's just a nuisance to me".

When anyone grizzles about the price of training I ask them why they went and bought a dog for in the first freaking place?? Why O Why don't people understand that there is a expense bracket in owning an animal?

You are right tim m99, it's all about education but some folks think they're too cool for school.

[NaturallyWild]

When anyone grizzles about the price of training I ask them why they went and bought a dog for in the first freaking place?? Why O Why don't people understand that there is a expense bracket in owning an animal?

You're right - so many people don't realise the real costs of owning a dog. It's not just a few hundred dollars intitially.

Thats were i think that if the price of some initial training is incorporated into the price - they don't realise they've forked out money for something else on top of the dog. Sneaky hey.

I also think that many people will continue with training if the initial training is a cheap training session where they can see some results, get a little education and believe that there is a benefit to forking out more money for further training.

We've just gotta get that foot in the door sometimes.

[m-j]

So how do you guys enforce the training requirements?

Good question...... rely on peoples honesty :rolleyes: Like with all the laws now, only the honest will do the right thing,

cheers

M-J