herding_guy Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 As some of you are aware my 3year old Aust. Working Kelpie was attacked by another dog. A deliberate attack 3 times. He may also hold some negative images towards the actions of the men who attacked me at the same time. My concerns are the mental pictures and therefore behaviour problems that may follow. I now want to plan a program for his mental rehabilitation (and mine). Could all you experienced people out there give me some ideas and case studies that you may have to help me. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim1 Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Oi Steve K9 .... i would love to hear your how you would work with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 HG that was a terrifying thing that happened to you and Scout. I can't even begin to imagine how you're feeling. I'm sure more experienced people will have good ideas - but I'd just like to say that, given that Scout is (I understand) one of your good working dogs - you may find that he copes extremely well. Resilience - both physical and psychological - is IMHO a big part of a good working dog's make-up, and this may transfer even to this kind of horrific experience. An important thing will be for you to be trusting that Scout is resilient, and not create a victim mentality in him - your feelings, as I'm sure you know, will go straight through to Scout. Is it possible for you and Scout to hang out with some known safe dogs, so that you can feel safe while you observe his behaviour. and suss out whether you're going to have a problem? It would be great if you could include some pitty or mastiff-shaped dogs, just to see if this sparks a reaction. (I find my Border Collie reacts unfavourably to particular shapes/stances etc. of other dogs anyway.) If there seems to be a problem, I would be checking out what his comfort distance is, and staying at that while you work with him/play with him - whatever makes him feel good. You'd then be gradually trying to shrink the "worry-zone" - i.e. gradual desensitization. Same thing in relation to men - although you're probably not going to have any of the same 'type' among the people you know. Hope you guys' physical recovery is going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 K9: HG, I read the thread & have to say I am sorry for what has happened to you & your dog. I can only imagine having to bury those men if that were me.... Now onto your dog... If you take a look at this web page, its my development schedule in terms of temperament. You will see that the second fear period ends around 16 months. With your dog being 24 months plus?, we can only hope that his temperament had developed into a solid, less volatile state & that this incident will have no effect... What I would do... If he is physically able, I would take him & work him on some sheep, push him & give him a hard day... Reward that day with some quiet time with you at the end, no other people or dogs. This reflection time can be therputic. We have to make sure that your Alpha status isnt damaged as he thinks you didnt protect him... Keep other people, bystanders away on this first day, so the focus / drive satisfaction is pure, not effected by too much distraction... Give him x amount of days break then, (x amount is a few days more than he is used to) Then give him another hard day. After that hard day, take him to meet some people, have them look like the guys did on the day, clothing, etc etc.. View how he looks at them in this state (tired drive satisfied etc) Its now that you will be able to see how he, as a working dog will be effected. Once you know this I can give you the next steps... Good luck... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 K9: HG, I read the thread & have to say I am sorry for what has happened to you & your dog. I can only imagine having to bury those men if that were me.... Thank you - but I'd bury them alive. With your dog being 24 months plus?, we can only hope that his temperament had developed into a solid, less volatile state & that this incident will have no effect...What I would do... If he is physically able, I would take him & work him on some sheep, push him & give him a hard day... Reward that day with some quiet time with you at the end, no other people or dogs. This reflection time can be therputic. He will not be able to work for another 3 weeks so I'm taking him for walks around te farm including the are that the incident happened. We have to make sure that your Alpha status isnt damaged as he thinks you didnt protect him... Crikey - I did everything I could to protect him. I don't feel our relationship has changed. Give him x amount of days break then, (x amount is a few days more than he is used to) Then give him another hard day.After that hard day, take him to meet some people, have them look like the guys did on the day, clothing, etc etc.. View how he looks at them in this state (tired drive satisfied etc) Its now that you will be able to see how he, as a working dog will be effected. x amount might be a problem seeing he works an awful lot but I can see your point - Looks like I've gone from a 16 hour day to a 20 hour day - no prob for me Scouty. Once you know this I can give you the next steps... I'll be in touch and thank you. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Hi DAve glad to here you guys ae on the mend I agree with K( get him out working again first and i know its hard but try and be relaxed its so easy to show tension when you see anoter dog afetr an attack you know the drill Im sure you'd hve no probs finding some suitable dogs to have hanging around down the track but keep the focus on you and him and working the other dogs are just there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 HD: He will not be able to work for another 3 weeks so I'm taking him for walks around te farm including the are that the incident happened. K9: not a good idea, since the event you dont want to change his life style, other wise the event will be a "life changing" one... Work or spell... Crikey - I did everything I could to protect him. I don't feel our relationship has changed. K9: & Im sure you did a fine job, probably saved his life, but in the above quote, there is a lot of "I's"... He may not see it that way. Dogs dont use logic... Dogs become aggressive after an attack largely because they feel they have to protect themselves as you didnt (according to them).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 HG, Scout was attacked while herding/working? Sorry, I had no idea. Hope both of you are on the mend. Just for interest, could someone direct me to the relevant original thread? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoBella Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 LL How did you miss that.... It's here Herding guy Good luck with getting your kelpie and yourself back to normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 LL How did you miss that.... It's here Herding guy Good luck with getting your kelpie and yourself back to normal Thanks, I have read the thread. Sorry for your dog HG. Some of the replies upset me greatly. I know when I train in public areas, I try to keep an eye out, but truth be known, I become so focused on the dog work, sometimes I do not hear or see possible danger. Another reason why I train most on private land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 If I read the thread correctly Scout and HG were on private land. So I understood. The bottom line, if one of my dogs attacked another dog, I would give serious consideration to its life span. I adore my dogs, but............................... I do not wish to start another thread, but the owner needs his head read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I do not wish to start another thread, but the owner needs his head read. Perhaps, although something tells me that owner's head is past its use by date and "reading" it would be impossible. Good luck with Scout's physical recovery and mental rehabilitation, HG. Is it possible to get him back to at least 'pretend work' .... IE something similar to what he normally does, but on a much lower and lighter level? Good for you for planning and seeking to minimise/resolve any psychological affect the attack on him MIGHT have had .... as K9 says, if his previous socialisation experiences were broad and sound, this will help his recovery, as he will be able to draw on the critical period permanent memories of good experiences. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 HD: He will not be able to work for another 3 weeks so I'm taking him for walks around te farm including the are that the incident happened. K9: not a good idea, since the event you dont want to change his life style, other wise the event will be a "life changing" one... Work or spell... He got a small amount of round yard work yesterday. I'll give him a little more today. HD: Crikey - I did everything I could to protect him. I don't feel our relationship has changed. K9: & Im sure you did a fine job, probably saved his life, but in the above quote, there is a lot of "I's"... He may not see it that way. Dogs dont use logic... Dogs become aggressive after an attack largely because they feel they have to protect themselves as you didnt (according to them).. Yes he's snapshot of the event does include a lot of me. I will not know how I will react when another dog comes into the picture but experience tells me I'm usually pretty calm. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted June 28, 2006 Author Share Posted June 28, 2006 Scout was attacked while herding/working? Sorry, I had no idea. No, he wasn't actually herding but in his mind scouting for stray sheep - so he was in work mode. The event did happen on private property where my sheep stray to ocassionally, not on our normal training grounds. Scout is looking great and the good news is the pup I kept from the last litter, Mouse, is showing a lot of his dads attributes apart from the arrogance (yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 HG: Yes he's snapshot of the event does include a lot of me. I will not know how I will react when another dog comes into the picture but experience tells me I'm usually pretty calm. K9: It will be imperative that you be yourself as you were before... This is easily done if you follow my rules, here are some things to remember... Make it a game. Good trainers always win the game... There is only one sure way to win every game..... Cheat... You need to control the other players in this game, in other words, dont stumble accross another dog, put one there, one that you trust (ie own the other team)... Then be yourself & repaint the picture in your dogs head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emily Howard Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 (edited) K9...... When scout was attacked, is it possible that he would have gone into a drive peak (defence I'm guessing) and therefore have no data recording of at least a part of the situation? So as horrific as it would have been, he may not register all of it? HG: I hope it's a speedy recovery for you both. Edited June 29, 2006 by Gigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 K9...... When scout was attacked, is it possible that he would have gone into a drive peak (defence I'm guessing) and therefore have no data recording of at least a part of the situation? So as horrific as it would have been, he may not register all of it?HG: I hope it's a speedy recovery for you both. Interesting question. One of my labs was attacked, from memory, at about 16 weeks of age, while I was training with a high level Danish trainer. I bent down to calm my youngster and the trainer, nearly slapped my hands. The dog in question never had aggression issues, UNLESS SHE SAW the attackee. She never forgot that particular dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 K9: It will be imperative that you be yourself as you were before... HG: No problem there, but some say I can be a little too confident something I need to be aware of I guess. K9: Make it a game. Good trainers always win the game... There is only one sure way to win every game..... Cheat... THe rules of sheep herding teaching and training - I follow. THanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herding_guy Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 K9...... When scout was attacked, is it possible that he would have gone into a drive peak (defence I'm guessing) and therefore have no data recording of at least a part of the situation? So as horrific as it would have been, he may not register all of it?HG: I hope it's a speedy recovery for you both. THis is what I'm hoping. So far he has shown no signs of changed behaviour around my other dogs and seems to be more attentive towards me. To him it may have just been another day at work with a feral ram or bull. Your well wishes are appreciated, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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