rugerfly Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Ahhhh look....how we correct our dogs is up to us in the end....how we see fit. Both my dogs are very obedient, but when i get home, they cant contain themselves and wrestle with each other right near me. They do the 'but swing' right into my legs.. All im doing, like you are with your knees, is saying, hey watch it you big brown clumsy mutts.. Im sure NONE of us that are that here (all completely dog obsessed) would abuse our dogs. Poor scope is obviously fed up as sometimes you get, sometimes its just a bit too much when everything else is going wrong, little things annoy us easily. Especially when you try so hard to nurture the good things out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swain Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Training is the answer, not violence. If one feels the need to punch or slap their dogs then they need further education about training and a few lessons in self control. I agree, and i think that scope is after some help / training. At least she came to ask for help knowing that what she had done would get people upset and even off side. Hats off to scope for having the balls to admit she made a mistake and ask for help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Fact is, regardless of age when you're dealing with dogs everything should be black and white! MrsD. Violence towards dogs is certainly a black and white issue. There are no shades of grey and I think both Shek and Jaybeece have shown their maturity and experience on appropriate treatment of dogs in this thread. Immaturity?? I don't think so. My comments were nothing about violence towards dogs, rather the responses to someones plea for help. Not black or white, but shades of grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I agree, and i think that scope is after some help / training. At least she came to ask for help knowing that what she had done would get people upset and even off side. Hats off to scope for having the balls to admit she made a mistake and ask for help! Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 As for giving suggestions, I did that. I also think it was good of Scope to come and ask for help, it was Scope being worried that she might lash out at her dog AGAIN that was particularly worrying. Sometimes I think people sit back and don't really say what they think and when it comes to abuse they should. I did point out exactly what Scope had done wrong, I wasn't going to pussyfoot around it and say "hey, it's OK you belted into your dog because you couldn't handle it and got frustrated, just don't do it again" because it's not OK. And if being upfront about it here on this thread helps someone to think about their actions before they lash out again then it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 My comments were nothing about violence towards dogs, rather the responses to someones plea for help.Not black or white, but shades of grey. not really sure where you're going with that there? I feel that the responses given by everyone (not just me and Shek) were sensible and based on what's best for the dog and Scope alike. Can you give some examples of what you're talking about? Are you trying to use our ages as a way to discredit the advice given? It seems a little rude when we're just trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) My comments were nothing about violence towards dogs, rather the responses to someones plea for help. Not black or white, but shades of grey. not really sure where you're going with that there? I feel that the responses given by everyone (not just me and Shek) were sensible and based on what's best for the dog and Scope alike. Can you give some examples of what you're talking about? Are you trying to use our ages as a way to discredit the advice given? It seems a little rude when we're just trying to help. Once again, I merely asked your ages because the thing that struck me about your replies (not ayone elses) where that there was no shades of grey, only black & white which is often the way that younger people view the world. Maybe it was just a complete co-incidence that I was correct. I've re-read the thread, maybe you should step back for a moment & re-read it too & maybe you will see where Im coming from. Edited June 20, 2006 by MrsD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I've re-read the thread, maybe you should step back for a moment & re-read it too & maybe you will see where Im coming from. I've re-read the thread and I get where you're coming from, I just don't agree with you. You say our replies were black and white...our first replies were about the violence towards the dog...that IS black and white...violence is never OK. But both of us also offered suggestions to Scope. The only difference I see between us and almost every other poster was that we weren't "fluffing" our responses to avoid conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I've re-read the thread, maybe you should step back for a moment & re-read it too & maybe you will see where Im coming from. I've re-read the thread and I get where you're coming from, I just don't agree with you. You say our replies were black and white...our first replies were about the violence towards the dog...that IS black and white...violence is never OK. But both of us also offered suggestions to Scope. The only difference I see between us and almost every other poster was that we weren't "fluffing" our responses to avoid conflict. That's fine, I don't agree with you either, I dont think its anything to do with avoiding conflict, I saw others trying to help both make Scope not feel even more guilty (she already said how bad she felt & knew it was wrong) & give constructive ideas on ways to help & methods to try. When someone mentioned further down the thread (I think it may have been bree?) that Scope was looking for help your response was "And scope has been advised to either get in touch with Steve from K9 Force or to seek out another good trainer." Black & white, no other suggestions from others should be forthcoming. Ignoring the fact that Scope has mentioned how hard up for money she is. Once again, black & white. Your only suggestions were that & to get rid of the dog. If you re-read the thread again you may also notice that quite a few other people have commented on the fact that Scope needs help & suggestions. I just happen to totally agree with them. Not that it's probably going to make a difference now anyway as Scope has mentioned not returning to the forum. Hope she finds the advice she needs out in the real world, don't you? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 MrsD. Violence towards dogs is certainly a black and white issue. There are no shades of grey and I think both Shek and Jaybeece have shown their maturity and experience on appropriate treatment of dogs in this thread. Immaturity?? I don't think so. My comments were nothing about violence towards dogs, rather the responses to someones plea for help. Not black or white, but shades of grey. My response to this thread was clearly to Rugerfly who happily told us she had punched her dogs a million times. It was not in reply to Scope who is doing a good job and trying hard to train her dogs in difficult circumstances. Please don't attempt to make it look otherwise. To punch dogs or people is an act of violence. It is black and white. There is no grey area. Violence is violence whatever colour you want to paint it. I think it was rude to ask Jaybeece and Shek how old they are. Would you like us to ask you the same question? It is often said that younger people don't form opinions with the benefit of hindsight/experience. In the case of the two mentioned posters I don't see it that way. They are sensible and mature in the advice they offer. It is also said of older people that they can't see past the old way of doing things and are afraid of change and are of the opinion they they know best in spite of improved techniques and technology. Just FYI I am of the older generation. CavnRott, I never said I had a problem with your replies? :p And why on earth is it rude to ask someone how old they are? I don't gove a hoot if anyone asks how old I am - for the record Im 41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) Black & white, no other suggestions from others should be forthcoming. Ignoring the fact that Scope has mentioned how hard up for money she is. Once again, black & white. Your only suggestions were that & to get rid of the dog.Hope she finds the advice she needs out in the real world, don't you? :p Of course other suggestions should be forthcoming from others if they have them, they were just MY suggestions...and it's not "getting rid of the dog" it's putting that dog in a suitable home. I also hope Scope finds advice in the real world, that's the only place you can get accurate advice on a particular dog's problem. To give advice on a dog that has bitten it's owner, over the internet is not responsible IMO, it needs a behaviouralist. Edited June 20, 2006 by shekhina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sues Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Perhaps the two dogs have had a heirachy shift between themselves (when you were'nt there) and your GSD has perhaps dropped down a step? This perhaps would explain her being anxious and constantly harrassing the Rottie all of a sudden. It sounds like she's wanting to challenge and to 'sort this out' to regain her position, but perhaps the 'event' was so that she has no confidence in winning. A dog dropping from its position inthe pack can be very stressfull. I used to have a bitch that was the alpha dog and as she got old, one day she was set upon by two youngsters and at that moment she dropped to the bottom of the pack. She was never the same dog again. The other dogs completely ignored her and she had towait her turn in everything. I naturally protected her and she lived on for many years without incident. But it was a sad thing to see. I also have to agree that violence doesn't work with dogs. I can say however that on very rare occaisions you may need to be 'convincing', (not a violent angry outburst) and obedience must be obeyed immediately for the safety of you or the dog or others etc,.. But hitting out of frustration is something they simply cannot understand. I tend to 'pinch' my dogs if they're disobedient. Just a little pinch on the bum gets their attention. :p Its closer to a nip than a slap ( or a punch...?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugerfly Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) Edited cos it was all mean stuff. :p ...nuff said. Edited June 20, 2006 by rugerfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 The only difference I see between us and almost every other poster was that we weren't "fluffing" our responses to avoid conflict. That's the only difference I can see too. And you know what MrsD? Not sugar coating things is part of who I am. If anything age and experience has made me more direct. I think it was rude to ask Jaybeece and Shek how old they are. Would you like us to ask you the same question? It is often said that younger people don't form opinions with the benefit of hindsight/experience. In the case of the two mentioned posters I don't see it that way. They are sensible and mature in the advice they offer.It is also said of older people that they can't see past the old way of doing things and are afraid of change and are of the opinion they they know best in spite of improved techniques and technology. Just FYI I am of the older generation. Thanks cavNrott :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalsluvbree Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I've re-read the thread, maybe you should step back for a moment & re-read it too & maybe you will see where Im coming from. I've re-read the thread and I get where you're coming from, I just don't agree with you. You say our replies were black and white...our first replies were about the violence towards the dog...that IS black and white...violence is never OK. But both of us also offered suggestions to Scope. The only difference I see between us and almost every other poster was that we weren't "fluffing" our responses to avoid conflict. That's fine, I don't agree with you either, I dont think its anything to do with avoiding conflict, I saw others trying to help both make Scope not feel even more guilty (she already said how bad she felt & knew it was wrong) & give constructive ideas on ways to help & methods to try. When someone mentioned further down the thread (I think it may have been bree?) that Scope was looking for help your response was "And scope has been advised to either get in touch with Steve from K9 Force or to seek out another good trainer." Black & white, no other suggestions from others should be forthcoming. Ignoring the fact that Scope has mentioned how hard up for money she is. Once again, black & white. Your only suggestions were that & to get rid of the dog. If you re-read the thread again you may also notice that quite a few other people have commented on the fact that Scope needs help & suggestions. I just happen to totally agree with them. Not that it's probably going to make a difference now anyway as Scope has mentioned not returning to the forum. Hope she finds the advice she needs out in the real world, don't you? :p i did say that i thought scope did understand what she did was not neccessarily the right thing, BUT IT HAS BEEN DONE!!!! she cant go back and change it... we could debate all day (well actually we have been, as i have tried to study for exams but seem to end up on here all day, this post started at like 11am and is still going with no resolution) about hitting/abuse of animals etc... but no matter what you all say, she has done it now and cant go back and take it back.... what she needs now is advice from you all - you collectively know so much, so put it to good use- to try to solve this problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 And once again I'll say that I don't think the dog's problems can be dealt with over the internet. My advice is to get a behaviouralist to see the dog and go from there. I understand that Scope is short on money, I understand that better than a lot of people, but that is STILL my advice. A dog that has bitten needs to be dealt with by a professional who can assess the dog properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalsluvbree Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 shekhina - i agree that her problems will not be fixed on the net.... so now she has the advice to seek a professional..... everyone needs to remember that we are on the same side here!! for our dogs!! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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