Stiff Pups

[Shelby]

I lost a baby last year due to this type of fitting but think it could also have been caused by infection. Bitch had to have a caesarian and he was the only live whelp. The other whelps had been dead for a couple of weeks. He was born a strong good size puppy but within 48 hours, he started fitting. Nursed him all through the night only to have one more fit & not come around.

It is so heart breaking to watch, have had a couple of other pups do it too but they were a week early and only 4oz. Could be a quite a few causes but maybe it is nature taking those who would not normally survive?

[Steve]

You know every now and then my husband and I talk about those pups and thank god I havent seen it since but the way they went stiff still makes me wonder.I still cant believe it and Im sure to this day when I try to describe it people think Im exaggerating

I wouldnt call it stiff puppy - Id call it wooden puppy. When you see it you just cant believe it.Especially when they go from that to back to life!

Lilli I wish I had something to give you to help you to give this a fair go but it has me stumped and I think perhaps

we should do blood tests on the bitch and the pups so we can compare them and hopefully find a common link.

Its the only thing I can think of which may provide some answers.

Im so sorry you're living through this .

[persephone]

Just found this.... weird, and sad

does sound like something neurological...not due to the cold, IMO.

Poor little things.

[BJean]

I wouldnt call it stiff puppy - Id call it wooden puppy. When you see it you just cant believe it.Especially when they go from that to back to life!

this will sound a tad awful

but when my stiff pup was in one of its wooden phases i actually placed it on its paws on the table to see it would stand like an ornament

but his front paws were at the wrong angle so he fell over.

remained stiff in fallen position for another 10 / 20 seconds and then transformed back to a 'normal' pup.

Lilli I wish I had something to give you to help you to give this a fair go but it has me stumped and I think perhaps

we should do blood tests on the bitch and the pups so we can compare them and hopefully find a common link.

Its the only thing I can think of which may provide some answers.

Im so sorry you're living through this .

this morning the puppies' outlook appeared more promising.

all are getting .2mL of demotix intermittently (max 2mL / 24hours)

male1 is nursing again but still receiving drop of glucose four times a day.

puppies are now four days old.

[Jed]

.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed

[Sandra777]

Haven't read the whole thread so maybe this has been discussed

I had some Stafford pups do this (one litter only). Vet suggested they were hypoglaucemic (sp!!!!!!!) - low blood sugar in English

Gave them strong glucose solution every couple of hours for 36 hours. Neither of them made it but the bouts of stiffness didn't come back.

Their mother was a totally useless mother so they may have got cold but the whelping box has a built in heater so I shouldn't think so, and they were not cold anytime I touched them

[HOGWARTZBOXERS]

Im quite suprised how common this is, I have also had this problem previously and tried various ideas without any success, including fostering by another bitch,to no avail, at the time my concern was canine herpes, but this was not the case, my other thoughts were these "wooden moments" may have been cramping, low salt,etc. the strongest, largest pup was the first to go, with the smaller pups lasting longer, the last lasting two weeks,this was the one that was fostered by another bitch.

When the pups were born to a maiden older bitch she was constantly licking them, at first I thought it was because she was being a over excited new mum, but then I was picking up vibes that she new something was amiss and was starting to stress.This was before any signs of abnormality in the litter.

After reading all the previous posts, I am wondering if Peritonites/Ecoli/bateria, theory may be an issue and the bitch could sense/smell this, and this was the reason for the constant licking of the pups,trying to clean them.

I would be very interested to hear if constant licking was involved in these other cases.

An exellent tread and very derserving of the bump Lilli, may need to be transfered to breeding though

I am also wondering if anything NEW has come to light reguarding this problem. Hogz

Edited April 25, 2008 by HOGWARTZBOXERS

[WreckitWhippet]

I've had one do it, he was the true runt of the litter, quite active when born but the same happened to him. He would literally go rigid and feel like he was dead. It's the strangest thing. We never checked any further into it and I've not seen it since.

Like Sandra mine was in a Stafford litter.

Hogz, there was no excessive licking from the bitch, she rejected him and pushed him away.

[Steve]

No excessive licking in mine either .Part of the frustration for me was that I dont think the vet had ever seen it and when I describe it I get the impression that Im not really conveying that this was like it was. Ive seen pups with Hypo everything before and that kind of seizure is no where near what I saw in these pups. Someone said the other day that they felt I was just trying to find an answer for fading puppy syndrome and I have had a think about that but if thats what this is its very different to any other fading puppy Ive ever seen.

[WreckitWhippet]

I've been through illness with pups where they have gone stiff from pain etc but that one puppy was like rigormortis had set in. He was truly stiff like he was dead, to the point where I'd picked him up and throught that he was gone, only to have him come back to life again. He died at 5 days. I don't think i would have had the skill to nurse him through at the time and I have no idea what I'd do now if it cropped up again.

[EISHUND]

Hmm, wow this 'stiff' puppy thing is really bizarre. Are any of you horse people, because it sort of sounds like when a horse 'ties up'..

I've seen a horse that went stiff as a board and fell over, it seriously looked like it was dead!!

These are some of the theories on what can cause a horse to tie up.

Altered carbohydrate metabolism in the horse

Recent work has identified abnormal carbohydrate metabolism as a cause in many breeds of tying up.

Hypotension / Nervousness

Electrolyte imbalances

Horses which tie up during or following exercise frequently have electrolyte imbalances. These imbalances cannot be diagnosed with simple blood testing.

Mineral deficiency (Ca, Mg, P, K and Se)

Lactate build up

Too little oxygen getting to the muscles

Vitamin E \ Selenium deficiencies

Hypothyroidism

Hormone imbalances

Dehydration

Ca : P Ratio imbalanced

Imbalanced mineral ratios in diet

Over exertion in training

Dramatic changes in training

Genetic Inheritance

[New Age Outlaw]

Fascinating topic. I also had some "stiff" pups in the one (and so far only) litter I bred. There were two pups that were a bit smaller than the others and they had what look to be seizures. They would stretch out and go completely rigid, legs tail and neck all extended. They would then go back to normal. Those two pups didn't last very long before they died. We theorised that it might have been due to being a bit premmie. The bitch was mated twice, two days apart, and they date she whelped would have made her 4 days early for the first mating. We figured that the two affected pups might have been from the second mating, and so just too immature to survive. No idea if that is what caused it or not, but I have always wondered.

The three survivors grew up into lovely dogs (they are over 2 years old now)!

[Bulldust]

We had this happen in our first litter, and once he came back to life we took him to the vets and the pup was extremely dehydrated. He is over 2 now and hes fine

[cowanbree]

I have had it twice, they looked and felt like marble statutes. First time I lost both puppies. Second time I was more prepared as I had spoken to an old time breeder who told me it was either abnormalities in the puppy that I couldn’t do anything about and they were going to die or it was hypoglycemia. She told me immediately after to give the puppy brandy as it was the brain causing the seizures and brandy would relax the brain. Then slowly warm the puppy giving it glucose only, don’t feed it as feeding a chilled puppy is sure to kill it. She also said to continue to top the puppy up with glucose until it was a good body weight.

It didn’t seem that professional a method but the second time it happened it was a much planned and long awaited litter and it was happening to my pick dog – I had nothing to lose. It worked, he sits at my feet as I type

[Souff]

I have had it twice, they looked and felt like marble statutes. First time I lost both puppies. Second time I was more prepared as I had spoken to an old time breeder who told me it was either abnormalities in the puppy that I couldn’t do anything about and they were going to die or it was hypoglycemia. She told me immediately after to give the puppy brandy as it was the brain causing the seizures and brandy would relax the brain. Then slowly warm the puppy giving it glucose only, don’t feed it as feeding a chilled puppy is sure to kill it. She also said to continue to top the puppy up with glucose until it was a good body weight.

It didn’t seem that professional a method but the second time it happened it was a much planned and long awaited litter and it was happening to my pick dog – I had nothing to lose. It worked, he sits at my feet as I type

It may not be professional but sometimes it works. Brandy and warmth has brought many a baby animal back to life.

Glucose is always a goodie, or honey in warm water, and liquid calcium can be useful too.

Sometimes nothing works but at least you know you have tried.

Souff

[7464]

Is it worth doing an autopsy on a puppy that has died this way?

[Steve]

Autopsy has been done and nothing out of the ordinary is picked up.

Mine werent dehydrated . Marble statue is a good description.

[Jed]

.

[Rebanne]

why on earth was a thread so old brought up ?????? This started way back in 2002 and was last posted in in 2008. I thought old threads were locked

[SwaY]

So you bumped a 9 year old thread to have a go at me??

I don't believe that posters should be allowed to pin another poster's thread, particularly without their permission. JMHO

You posted in the Breeders thread and as you can see my Original post has not been edited, if you had a problem with it why did you not say something back then considering you had posted in that thread????