Jed Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 (edited) Posted in December 2011. I have deleted all my posts in this thread. There was no conclusion as to the cause of the stiff pups, yet despite that, the conclusion of the thread was "hypoglycaemia". This thread does not prove these pups had hypoglycaemia - in fact, it proves the opposite. Although some pups probably died of hypoglycaemia, most did not. I will not be involved with anything incorrect, or leading to incorrect conclusions. Acccordingly I have deleted all my posts in the thread. Shame really, as there are some good ideas in the thread. This is what a vet said "In my experience with this, most of the pups that go rigid, stop breathing and then revived, tend to die soon after. extensive research has been done into the stiffness phenomenon, but no conclusions have been made about it. It remains a mystery in the vet world." I don't believe that posters should be allowed to pin another poster's thread, particularly without their permission. JMHO Edited December 4, 2011 by Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Jed I too had this happen in 2 of my litters a couple of years ago. I didnt save any of the ones that went stiff as boards. Some kicked on as if there was nothing wrong for a while and then they just became sickly and died. This was in corgi litters so its not a boxer thing. I rang the vet and asked her what the hell it was and she said it was because they had at some time become cold usually with moving air as in a draught or a whelping box with no lid etc. Then they warm up and you think that they will be O.K. but the damage has already been done. Im not sure I went along with this 100percent as Ive seen puppies before that got cold but Ive never seen this ever before. Anyway since then my husband went out and bought castors for the whelping boxes that actually made sure that they were higher off the floor as this was the only thing we could come up with that may have been different as the corgi whelping box was lower so she could get in and out easier.She had heater pads and was in the lounge room where the heater was on but when I moved around the box with a candle the flame let me know that there was moving air over her. So now when Im whelping I have masking tape around all of the windows and stuff under the doors etc to try to prevent any moving air. After the whelping I cover the box as well.We actually built the whelping boxes for the boxers 4 feet 6 inches tall so we could put a lid on that too.So they turn into sort of a cave. I know Im not being much help but Ive never seen that either before or since and I was absolutely amazed when the little things were stiff one minute definitely dead as [ I did have a stethescope]and back to life the next.I looked for ages for some info on this but couldnt come up with anything to suggest that it wasnt just hypothermia.There's something about the thing that niggles me though. Why only the one bitch . In my case it was one corgi bitch and in yours one boxer bitch. I too am interested to see if anyone else has ever had this. By the way congratulations on the litter and I hope you save the little guy thats gone stiff.Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bosmans Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 I've seen the same thing in a litter of bull terriers years ago. It was weird! The pup looked as if it was dead and rigor mortis was already established. We wrapped it in newspaper and put it in the laundry for later disposal. A daughter of the family came home and said "Why is there a puppy in the laundry?"...and the pup was normal again. We had a fair bit of trouble getting it to drink but the pup did live - only to die at 4½ months of kidney failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 29, 2002 Author Share Posted August 29, 2002 (edited) . Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Jed My pups were showing no signs of pneumonia. Matter of fact they were showing no signs of anything except rigor mortis. And even then they were stiffer than a usually dead puppy even one thats been dead a while. Then Id smack them around and they'd come back.Like you I was asking how come this litter and no others I went with the vets word only because I couldnt find anything else and it made me feel I could do things to try to stop it ever happening again. I did climb into the whelping box and sit for a while and I felt cold as well because of the moving air that the heater was sucking in so now each litter I have I go after the drafts and hope thats the answer but there's still that doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundahoo Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 I think that what is being described here could be a form of seizure. Very young pups dont have the "common" clonic-tonic type of seizure, with violent trembling caused by muscles contracting and then releasing. They simply go rigid...... stiff as a board! There are a couple of causes for this. One is hypoglycaemia, or low blood sugar, other possibilities are some form of cardiac malformation, a liver problem or primary brain problem. Hypoglycaemia is probably the easiest to treat, but it must be asked WHY is this happening. It must indicate an underlying serious problem if several young pups in a litter cannot maintain normal blood sugar levels. Many years ago, I had a pup do just what has been described. The pup felt contantly cool. The "stiffness" happened several times that I was aware of and at a few days old the pup suddenly died. :D A post mortem exam was done by a specialist Pathologist and the pup was found to have a weird defect of the major vessels leading from its heart. The defect was called "common ductus" because two of the major arteries were combined into one large vessel and so blood was not being directed where it should. It is not an easy defect to detect on P.M. and is sometimes overlooked by non-specialists, simply because of the tiny size of baby puppy hearts and the unusual and rarely seen nature of the defect. I have sometimes wondered whether this defect is actually a litle more common than previously thought, as it is easy for it to be missed. While the lungs in this particular pup did not have pneumonia, they werent strictly normal due to the perfusion problem from the vessel abnormality, but I presume that if the pup had lived much longer then its lungs would have began to look as though they did have something that would resemble pneumonia at P.M. I hate to sound pessimistic about your chances with these pups, and I think that the most hopeful thing is for them to have hypoglycaemia. It would be worthwhile having a chat to your vet about this option and see if he can give you an idea as to the best way to correct the problem, if that is what they do have. Good luck with them, Jed. Keep us posted please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 29, 2002 Author Share Posted August 29, 2002 (edited) . Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 29, 2002 Author Share Posted August 29, 2002 (edited) . Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Hi Jed, I have never come across this before, so sorry can't add to this one, but I wanted to wish you well and hope the little ones pull through.. Will be thinking of you.. Let us know what the outcome is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaz Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Hi I though I was the only one, thought that I was going crazy when this happend, glad I'm not the only one, good to hear of stories which are simular,but it goes will the breeding, have your goods and your bads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest D Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Hi Jed, My first thought was seizures too. Especially given the 'recovery'. Think about how fits happen in humans...also there is that 'stiffness' with encephalitis(?sp). Anyway, you have a couple of theories to work with. Must be driving you loco though. I really hope they hang in there for you. Congratulations, and by the way, its ok to be a little paranoid especially while this is going on. All the best, D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Funny to describe what I saw as a seizure I would go for . Hard as a rock, stone dead, stiff as a brick, but considering they came back to life it must have been some kind of something like a fit. Ive whelped a hell of a lot of puppies and only ever seen this twice both with the same bitch.I know its horrid that you are in the middle of it but comforting to know I didnt imagine it when it happened to me. Im sure when I described it the vet thought I was exaggerating. Hell I thought I might have been myself!It truly up there with one of the most amazing things Ive ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 This is a very interesting line of conversation. as some of you may know i breed my first litter of boxers just last month and i had the exact same thing that jed describe to me happen with one of my boys (he was under 1 week at the time), it was whilst feeding him, and he just went stiff, i thought he had gotten some milk in his lungs and had stopped breathing or something, but with a couple of shakes he came back, it was very scary. The weird thing was he was fine after that but we later lost two pups from a lung infection caused by milk inhalation, and the pup that had gone stiff was fine. He is now the smallest of the pups, but he is doing well, and eats fine. I would be very interested in if anyone knows what this is, as when we told our vet he said it must have what we thought as it happened when i was feeding him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 29, 2002 Author Share Posted August 29, 2002 (edited) . Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kabanae Posted August 29, 2002 Share Posted August 29, 2002 Ah Wundahoo you've beaten me to it. I was going to suggest some sort of fit also. I don't have any other ideas other than that, but it does sound something like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 30, 2002 Author Share Posted August 30, 2002 (edited) . Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 Jed Sorry to hear about your white baby but Id love to know the answer to our riddle so keep us posted on the PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted August 30, 2002 Share Posted August 30, 2002 I get through it by knowing their in a safe place and nothing can ever hurt them.. Of course I bawl my eyes out, I'm a women, I'm allowed to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted August 31, 2002 Share Posted August 31, 2002 So long as you are not trying to deny us our rights to Shell. :D Hope the PM provides some answers Jed. Bob Wurroit Bedlingtons The Wolves in Sheeps Clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted August 31, 2002 Author Share Posted August 31, 2002 (edited) . Edited December 4, 2011 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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