J... Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I have a young dog that I would like to do obedience and then agility further down the track. My aim with the obedience is to have a reliable dog in all situations. I'd like to think she'll be good enough to do well in both. She's my first ever dog thats been mine to train. Grown up with dogs (both working and pet) but they weren't mine. I have a lot to learn about obedience (having never really seen it in action at a high level) which is why she's been to PPS, puppy school and now obedience. Missed one class in that whole time. I'm keen to learn. She's a beautiful natured dog, wants to meet everyone (dogs and humans) and I'm starting to see it affect her learning/focus etc at class. I.e today I made the mistake of letting her play with another dog for a few minutes and it then took me over half the class to get her attention back. When I get her attention she works really quite nicely. By herself - she's great! Add in distractions and she can be a sh*t! My problem is that I'm starting to see obedience class as a double edged sword. On one hand I need to learn, she needs to learn, the distractions are probably a learning process. On the other hand, we have socialisation during class that ruins her focus for the rest of the class, people who insist on a pat/doggie play without asking and instructors feeding dogs treats. How do you say no without looking like a control freak/cow! Having been to the k9 workshop I'm keen on the idea of prey drive training, and having just sat down and read the prey & socialisation/neutralisation thread from start to finish (plus watched a lot of the "inspiration" videos) I can see the benefits but feel there's a conflict between dog club and prey drive training. I will be starting with a different club this coming weekend, mostly because its a fair bit closer. But I'm still confused! Given there are others on here who have done drive training, what do you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I have a young dog that I would like to do obedience and then agility further down the track. My aim with the obedience is to have a reliable dog in all situations. I'd like to think she'll be good enough to do well in both. She's my first ever dog thats been mine to train. Grown up with dogs (both working and pet) but they weren't mine. I have a lot to learn about obedience (having never really seen it in action at a high level) which is why she's been to PPS, puppy school and now obedience. Missed one class in that whole time. I'm keen to learn. She's a beautiful natured dog, wants to meet everyone (dogs and humans) and I'm starting to see it affect her learning/focus etc at class. I.e today I made the mistake of letting her play with another dog for a few minutes and it then took me over half the class to get her attention back. When I get her attention she works really quite nicely. By herself - she's great! Add in distractions and she can be a sh*t! My problem is that I'm starting to see obedience class as a double edged sword. On one hand I need to learn, she needs to learn, the distractions are probably a learning process. On the other hand, we have socialisation during class that ruins her focus for the rest of the class, people who insist on a pat/doggie play without asking and instructors feeding dogs treats. How do you say no without looking like a control freak/cow! Hi feralpup, That's what we call Pele, 16 month old Bull Terrier AKA "Perilous Pele" or "The Feral Peril" From day one (8 weeks) I worked on "Watch" and "Come". Pele is excellent with both. Before obedience I can call her (on lead) from playing with another dog and she'll sit and watch me, so she gets to have play sessions. Impresses lots of people Try and not allow too much free play before class until she (what's her name?) learns "watch" and "come". People say that Bull Terriers are dumb and that you can't train them. With Pele I've used reward based training and she has passed a class each month at 2 obedience clubs (one we only get to on graduation day due to shows). She graduated Basic Obedience at nearly 13 months, and we are looking at our first obedience trial in the very near future. We've just started agility too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyvernblade Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 It makes it hard doesn't it?! I've visited quite a few training clubs trying to find something 'better' than the standard obedience with the million and one dogs that is on offer at the moment. There are two I have found that I like, both a bit different and both have there plus's and minus's, depends on what you want to do with your dog. What area are you in? And what are your end goals? I have a new puppy I am starting and he is an experiment to me at the moment as I have had and trained dogs before (But never to high competition level) they have just been better than 'average' family pets if that makes sense? And I always used the local dog obedience club.........BUT I am going waaaay off track with the new kid and I have not taken him to socilisation classes, and he has met no other dogs. I tested him last night and had our German Shepherd come into the lounge (Who he's never meet before, but we've had the puppy for nearly 3 weeks) I had the shepherd drop in the middle of the lounge and bought the puppy in. He just looked at the dog lying there and then looked at me and I started doing training with him. He happily did all his training, off lead, dropping etc with his back turned to the GSD who was less than 2 meters away. He could not care less about the other dog, was not interested in saying hello, but was also not worried by him at all. I was very pleased! PM me if you want the details of the two clubs I'd recommend......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 ... people who insist on a pat/doggie play without asking and instructors feeding dogs treats. How do you say no without looking like a control freak/cow! As far as this element is concerned, IMO, other people ... ESPECIALLY trainers (who should know better) shouldn't be feeding your dog without your permission. To begin with, how do they know your dog doesn't suffer upset stomach with certain foods? I have fed treats to clients' dogs I work with, but only if I'm working on an issue (eg. fear based) and only after I have asked the owners if it's ok to feed a food treat. Many people at the Club for whom I train practice in "food refusal" training, so I always ask what they're dog's eating "password" is, as well. If the trainers were worth their stuff, they shouldn't pass any judgement on you if you simply tell them "no, my training doesn't comprise of other people feeding my dog treats". But if this is a problem for you, then perhaps tell them some treats cause him an upset stomach so you only allow him treats to be fed from yourself. Personally, I don't think you should have to go this far - he's your dog afterall. Having been to the k9 workshop I'm keen on the idea of prey drive training, and having just sat down and read the prey & socialisation/neutralisation thread from start to finish (plus watched a lot of the "inspiration" videos) I can see the benefits but feel there's a conflict between dog club and prey drive training. This is always going to occur when you chose a different style of training from that which a Club offers. You could try speaking to the people who run the Club, explain your style of training and ask if they'd mind you working around (but outside of) the class, in your own fashion. If you can demonstrate the distance you require and the control you have, perhaps they won't mind. Of course, this means you won't really receive the benefits of the class instructor , who will be instructing in the Club's own methodology, and not one you've necessarily chosen (although you will probably pick up a training tip or two or three, which you can adapt to fit into your own training regime). At the Club I train at, we have had the occasional person who wishes to train their own specific way, but wish to use the class environment to further their dog's focus and obedience skills. Provided it is not interruptive to the class and provided the dog is under control, there is generally no objection, although of course they still do need to join the school as a member and observe certain protocols etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 K9: The simple answer is, if the place you are going be it club or trainer cannot provide the methods that will yeild the results you want from your dog then your in the wrong place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 What if it's the only kind of place you have in your state though? Is it OK to fully train your dog at home and then expect to take it to a trial and actually pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Then you have to be firm and dont do or allow things to be done that you dont want what area are you in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I'm in Hobart. There are very few places to pick and choose from here and as far as I know they all use the same methods. I am going to be training my GSD in drive and that doesn't seem to be how they work where I go now with my Rottweiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 what about a private trainer even f you went once a moth nd got them to give you work to do over that time im not sure if there is anyone down your way but there might be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I'm about to start a drive training course with K-9 Force through the internet, so I can do all that with Kovu, but I want to title him and to do that I'm going to need to go to an obedience school...that's where the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 Touche Shekhina! I'm in Western Vic (about 1:20 West of Geelong) currently drive over an hour to present club, new one is 45 mins away. I'm happy to do the distance if its worth it. Its hard when your instructor is competing at a level that I'd like to get to, probably got umpteem training certs under their belt, yet to say to them in the middle of a class "thats not the way I want my dog treated/trained", especially when you're as green as me But after I seen a check applied to a dog (twice) that I wouldn't ever consider using on my 600 kg horse, let alone my dog, I know I need to look further afield. Maybe a regular lesson is a possibility, something I hadn't thought about. If anyone has any recommendations at all, happy to drive to Melbourne and surrounds if I have to. Just not something I can do every weekend. Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Shekina can you find a private trainer thats trialled so they know what you are aiming for you then wouldnt need a club i know quite a few epople that trial without going to a club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Feralpup im sure there would be someone over your side of the city that can help you get to trial standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Well I could do that, but affording it is another thing. The breeder of my GSD does free training for all dogs she's bred, so I could take Kovu to her, but I would be doing that now if I had the transport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 Does anyone have any recommendation for the West side of Melbourne/Geelong for trainers/dog schools who do drive training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 K9: try contacting kelpie-i on this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 Thanks Steve - done! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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