Erny Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 So I went around and asked many people and trainers, (Mostly people who show dogs and a sibe breeder from my area) and 80% of them told me to use ..... The problem with simply "asking trainers" for advice on one thing or another, is that when you receive a "tip" that's ALL people then do. There can be many different reasons for behaviour and a number of different things to do towards behaviour modification .... not just "one thing". Can't say I favour the alpha roll method, but that's not really the point of my post here. People with dogs with behaviour issues should, IMO, seek out a reputable and competant behaviourist and should follow the advice given, keep regular contact and take regular lessons from that person. That way you can be coached in dealing with your dog's behaviour overall. This is why over the net advice is not good. People insist on "hints" but take the hint and apply it singularly to anything else. And unless you engage a qualified person to coach you, "hints" in the literal sense of the word is generally all a person can give - and not even specific to your own dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 So I went around and asked many people and trainers, (Mostly people who show dogs and a sibe breeder from my area) and 80% of them told me to use ..... The problem with simply "asking trainers" for advice on one thing or another, is that when you receive a "tip" that's ALL people then do. There can be many different reasons for behaviour and a number of different things to do towards behaviour modification .... not just "one thing". Can't say I favour the alpha roll method, but that's not really the point of my post here. People with dogs with behaviour issues should, IMO, seek out a reputable and competant behaviourist and should follow the advice given, keep regular contact and take regular lessons from that person. That way you can be coached in dealing with your dog's behaviour overall. This is why over the net advice is not good. People insist on "hints" but take the hint and apply it singularly to anything else. And unless you engage a qualified person to coach you, "hints" in the literal sense of the word is generally all a person can give - and not even specific to your own dog. I dont normally take everybodys advice. I think them over and apply it to my dog and if I dont think it is right or will have any efect on her then I simply dont do it. All I really need to know is how to gain fouces which I think I have an ideal how to deal with that...food! But she just gets way to wild over food and toys so I have been really thinking it over. But at the moment I just want to gain focuse from her before she goes in heat and before I go insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybeece Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 So I went around and asked many people and trainers, (Mostly people who show dogs and a sibe breeder from my area) and 80% of them told me to use ..... People with dogs with behaviour issues should, IMO, seek out a reputable and competant behaviourist and should follow the advice given, keep regular contact and take regular lessons from that person. That way you can be coached in dealing with your dog's behaviour overall. Honestly Erny, this is easier said then done. Trying to find a competant behaviouralist when you're new to this kind of problem is not all that easy and certainly not cheap if you go for a private consultation. Obedience instructors often swing from not knowing how to dealing with this kind of issue to telling you to the letter how they think it should be done. It's actually very difficult to find good advice, and even harder to find someone who can help you recognise the root causes of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Honestly Erny, this is easier said then done. Trying to find a competant behaviouralist when you're new to this kind of problem is not all that easy ... True, it can be .... but not impossible. IMO, the first best question to ask is "does anyone know of a good trainer/behaviourist I can engage for xxxx problem?" ... and certainly not cheap if you go for a private consultation. I promise you that the value of engaging a trainer/behaviourist is far cheaper in the long term, than many of the mistakes (some irreversible) that are made by simply trying to string it all together by asking specific questions whilst precluding the benefit of opportunity for the trainer/behaviourist to see the "big picture". It's also FAR cheaper than the cost of becoming a good trainer/behaviourist (and staying that way) yourself. It's actually very difficult to find good advice, and even harder to find someone who can help you recognise the root causes of the problem. This is where asking for referrals is one of the first best steps to take. It's not that I don't like giving free information over the net ..... heck, if I didn't then I would've been out of here ages ago! . It's just I don't believe SOME people are really going to find the help they need, nor necessarily fix the problem they have, by a "1 + 1 = 2" type question and answer. With dog behaviour, some times "1 + 1 = 5" and this needs to be recognised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Latest news addition on this topic, lady in question has since been kicked out of an obedience ring for harsh handling....her dogs now go down into a drop during the sit-stay. I'm wondering if since she has forced them into subordinate positions as punishment, that they now put themselves into subordinate positions when she is staring at them during the sit stays from the other side of the ring? Wonder if the dog is thinking (using that term loosely!) 'Oh I'm in trouble, she's staring me down' and they drop? Problem is, they still get into trouble cuz they've dropped...which was what happened when she was kicked out of the ring. I feel sooo bad for these poor dogs, they must be so confused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fido666 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Latest news addition on this topic, lady in question has since been kicked out of an obedience ring for harsh handling....her dogs now go down into a drop during the sit-stay. I'm wondering if since she has forced them into subordinate positions as punishment, that they now put themselves into subordinate positions when she is staring at them during the sit stays from the other side of the ring? Wonder if the dog is thinking (using that term loosely!) 'Oh I'm in trouble, she's staring me down' and they drop? Problem is, they still get into trouble cuz they've dropped...which was what happened when she was kicked out of the ring. I feel sooo bad for these poor dogs, they must be so confused! Well this might be considered "old school" but when I was training for the sit stay I would never stare at my dog, just look directly ahead just over the level of the head as if staring into the horizon. A direct stare is a challenge to a dog, some dogs will react badly to it. As for the reason for the dog dropping in the sit stay this could also be due to physical causes, perhaps the dog is injured in some way and it hurts to sit up for too long? I have seen people take their desire to succeed in the trial ring to excessive lengths and the dogs just shut down, to me if the dogs aren't enjoying it then it's not a fun activity for me either so why force the issue? I agree behaviour problems need to be addressed, I just don't class lack of drive as a behaviour issue. Regards, Corine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Latest news addition on this topic, lady in question has since been kicked out of an obedience ring for harsh handling....her dogs now go down into a drop during the sit-stay. I'm wondering if since she has forced them into subordinate positions as punishment, that they now put themselves into subordinate positions when she is staring at them during the sit stays from the other side of the ring? Wonder if the dog is thinking (using that term loosely!) 'Oh I'm in trouble, she's staring me down' and they drop? Problem is, they still get into trouble cuz they've dropped...which was what happened when she was kicked out of the ring. I feel sooo bad for these poor dogs, they must be so confused! Well this might be considered "old school" but when I was training for the sit stay I would never stare at my dog, just look directly ahead just over the level of the head as if staring into the horizon. A direct stare is a challenge to a dog, some dogs will react badly to it. As for the reason for the dog dropping in the sit stay this could also be due to physical causes, perhaps the dog is injured in some way and it hurts to sit up for too long? I have seen people take their desire to succeed in the trial ring to excessive lengths and the dogs just shut down, to me if the dogs aren't enjoying it then it's not a fun activity for me either so why force the issue? I agree behaviour problems need to be addressed, I just don't class lack of drive as a behaviour issue. Regards, Corine No, not old school, Corine- I have heard that b4. Incidently, same woman feeds one of her dogs pain killers so he can compete in agility....so their could be something to the injury side of things too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fido666 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 No, not old school, Corine- I have heard that b4. Incidently, same woman feeds one of her dogs pain killers so he can compete in agility....so their could be something to the injury side of things too. Now to me that's just plain excessive and bordering on cruelty, maybe we need anti-doping rules in obediance too! I have a dog who has a plate and 6 pins holding his Tibia together, I wouldn't dream of doing agility with him. Cheers, Corine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippi Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Incidently, same woman feeds one of her dogs pain killers so he can compete in agility....so their could be something to the injury side of things too. OMG WTF is that woman thinking. She needs to be banned from owning dogs not just banned from a trial ring. Very sad.....lets hope karma will get her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Whats even scarier is that she has nominated to become officer in charge of training at our club. Aside from her cronies, some other current committee members have decided that they will vote for her...their reasoning is that they'll let her run the club down and then try to get rid of her with a vote of no confidence. I'm gonna protest the nomination or find out if there is a way that we can not accept it. I figure that if I can protest the nomination with supported arguments then I may be able to swing some votes away from her? Biggest problem with this woman is that her ego is bigger than her love for her dogs and she also has no respect for any rule that stands in the way of what she wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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