Vet Care - Need To Change?

[noisymina]

Kaisie had a lump appear on her hind leg - was growing, losing hair in the area, not hot but a bit tender and seemed to contain some fluid, but also some hard sections.

Trip to vet confirmed a cyst type thing - possibly due to a prickle or similar, combined with a skin "infection" causing the hair loss.

Prescribed a course of anti-biotics and also provided some cream to apply to the area.

This was a few weeks ago now, but the lump, while it went down almost completely, has not gone away and unless I keep applying the cream the hail loss in a small area continues.

But, now there seems to be another lump developing a bit further up from the original one.

The cost of the trip seemed a bit steep and I compared what I could, namely the consultation fee and it is a couple of dollars more the than our original vet was charging.

As Kaisie is due for her annual visit soon, I rang and got quotes from that vet surgery and another one for comparison.

The one I rang for a comparison came in at about the same as I paid last year, but the new guy here charges several dollars more for that service also.

If I take her back for the lump thing, I'll be up for more, but since I did not feel particularly "comfortable" with the new one, and since the prices have obviously been increased across the board, to varying degrees and WITHOUT notification to the clients to this effect, I think I will have to give the other crew a try.

I would appreciate opinions regarding the lump thing and the treatment given - whether or not it should have been lanced to get rid of the foreign material causing it - whether or not the treatment given was the normal treatment etc.

Thanks in advance.

Edited June 9, 2006 by noisymina

[Erny]

Hi Noisymina

Welcome to the world of "spot the good Vets ..... if you can". I know there's some good one's out there, and to them ..... - don't wish to tar you with the same brush as others, but I do know how difficult and how expensive it is to track them down, given that mostly it's a matter of trial and error, with the dog owner paying for both the trial/s and the error/s. :p

I don't know that anyone could specifically answer your questions here on the net - to do so might be a bit dangerous as diagnosis could so easily be wrong. They may, however, be able to relate similar stories/situations of their own pets. But even then, your dog could be in a different story as theirs.

I can't help you myself (though lordy knows Kal's had/got every other infliction going :cool: ) but I hope you manage to cut to the chase and solve this problem sooner rather than later.

I will stretch to hazard a guess though (except pardon me, as I'm no Vet) ..... Is it possible that there is a foreign body that is/was the cause of the lump, and that it has 'migrated'? Would it be a simple procedure for the Vet to simply lance the lump? Or I wonder if there are any "drawing" properties that can be used to draw it out? (Human equivalent would be something like "magnoplasm"). Give a dog's tendancy to lick/chew etc., though, this might not be feasible and if it is in too deep could well be ineffective.

My thoughts only, and possible well off base.

Let us know how you go. In the meantime, I'm sure others might have some better suggestions and more helpful advice.

Edited June 6, 2006 by Erny

[noisymina]

Thanks, Erny - pretty close to my guess, too.

We can't both be wrong, now can we? :p

[Muttaburra]

Between now and when you go to the vet you could try a slice of potato as a poultice on it. (keeping in mind that raw potato is not good for dogs) from memory can upset the dogs digestion if they eat it.

A good vet should be able to tell by the feel of a lump, what the nature of the lump is likely to be. Anyway it does sound like it needs attention.

Hope it all goes ok.

[zayda_asher]

Sounds like it could be a histiocytoma (NOT to be confused with a histiosarcoma!!). Needle Aspiration would tell you for sure...

Dan

[noisymina]

histiocytoma

A what????????????

And I thought it was a prickle. :p

Now googling that one.

[zayda_asher]

yeah... its a bit like that isn't it?!

Here, try this one.. it has a pic: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_histiocytoma.html

Have to say though, my girl has one, but its never done all the ulceration or loosing fur business that is "normal"... but, hey, my girl ain't that normal...

Dan

[noisymina]

Thanks, Aber - would like to try it, but it's not in a spot I can bandage easily.

I'm lagging on the vet, but will probably make a date for Friday if I can.

[schnauzer]

I would have thought needle aspiration to confirm what it is. Could possibly be foreign body/grass seed that has now migrated. Grass seeds will often abcess, but if not can migrate.

Hope it disappears for you. :rolleyes:

[petaj]

Howdy!

Just came to wish best of luck for your dog. Did the vet insert a needle into the lump, or prepare a smear or anything to look at under the microscope? I would have thought cytology would have been pretty routine for a skin lump (but then I just learned how to do it so I'm probably super keen, some vets may not do it because you can't always get a proper diagnosis and it can leave you feeling a bit dumb!). I wouldn't be too quick in deciding what kind of cells could be causing the growth if it wasn't entirely inflammatory though, even if this sounds like a common presentation for a histiocytoma - but then I am still in uni and have no clinical experience in dermatology. Best of luck.

Also a bit off-topic: Just wondering if it was known why potato is bad for dogs' stomachs? I haven't researched this at all, I was only honestly wondering because it is one of the carbohydrate sources recommended in our nutrition lectures to give dogs when they have upset tummies. But then I have heard other people say that it was bad also, just wanted to know if people knew why/what was bad about it. Would look it up myself but I shouldn't even be here now - exam Saturday

[Muttaburra]

Petaj, from what I've read, raw potato is just hard for dogs to digest, I have seen it on various lists of what not to feed dogs.

Noisy - What! aren't you prepared to stand next to your dog and hold the raw potato onto the lump for 12 hours?? ;) If it's not an abscess or foreing body it wouldn't help anyway. Needle asperation sounds the way to go.

[noisymina]

Noisy - What! aren't you prepared to stand next to your dog and hold the raw potato onto the lump for 12 hours??

No. Want to make me? ;)

Appointment is 9.30 in the morning - with new vet.

petaj

It seems to be inflammatory rather than a growth type thing - but I'm not the expert here :D

Re the potato: Do a search on "Solanin" - not sure of the spelling.

It is a poison that is produced when potatoes are expose to sunlight. It eventually becomes apparent as a green dicolouration in the potatoes - you've probably seen that.

As I remember it, this stuff is produced during harvest, transportation etc - but is not immediately apparent as it takes time for the green colour to appear. Even cutting out the green will not help as the poison is spread throughout the poatato. Since it is not immediately obvious and we have no way of knowing whether or not our potatoes have been exposed to the sun, we have a problem.

The poison is rendered harmless throught the cooking process, so, it comes down to the fact that we have to make sure our (and the dogs) potatoes are well cooked. Raw potato could, but does not necessarily, contain this poison - and we have no way of knowing for sure either way by just looking at them.

Hope this helps.

[noisymina]

Well, we saw new vet this morning. He's more the "sort" I have confidence in, thank goodness.

So his name has been recorded and I will ask for him next time, too, if only for consistency.

He was really positive and informative - and is the first one to actually manage to get a thrmometer in the required place.

I told him that either she was getting better, or he was really clever. He said she would be getting better. Modest, too.

Any way, he reckons we are looking at a wear & tear, callous type thingy - rubbing on the skin, blocks sebacious (sp?) glands, blocks hair follicles, hair does not grow out, body "sees" foreign stuff - fights it - fluid, swelling and infection follows.

This is logical according to the position on the leg where the lumps are located and, bright guy, found the very bginning of another one on the opposite leg in the same location - sort of confirms the theory. Obviously she has a favourite side to lie down on and that one presented the problem first off.

And I already have soft mats everywhere because of the elbow callouses.

OK - long term management required - keep up the cream, get washer and anti- bacterial shampoo (Pyohex or Malaseb) and give those areas a good scrub each week to keep the skin clear of built-up gunk. It's not so bad right now, so no anti-biotics needed (yep - they could be out for more profit here, but not so) but if it gets bad - swells up etc, anti-biotics will be the way to go.

We also discussed a couple of other things and he did checks of lungs, teeth ears without my asking.

So, hopefully, it will all be good - and we will have a vet we are happy with.

Thanks for all the info and "prodding" everyone.

;)

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Glad to hear things seem on the improve with the new vet Noisy. OH and I have moved interstate many times b/c of his job and therefore, we've had many different vets. We've had all types from the excellent to the very poor that don't warrant a repeat visit under any circumstances. I find that most vets respect clients who make an effort to find out about their pet's "normal" range of behaviours and physical signs (such as bowel motions - type and frequency, disposition, likes and dislikes re handling), and what seems to be "not normal", and also when the change/s happened, why you noticed the change and what brought you to the vet's clinic.

When Lilly was off-colour a few weeks ago, all the above was important. She wasn't "sick" in any real sense, but she wasn't herself either. I went through every subtle change, related it all to the vet in a very detailed and clear manner, and listened to his theories and possible diagnostic tools and likely outcomes. I asked intelligent/well-informed questions when needed, and my vet (who I was seeing for the first time b/c we had not needed a vet here before this occasion) was superb. Needless to say, despite the fact that I don't have a concrete diagnosis, I'm very happy with the vet's response and course of action. Lilly has recovered to her usual goofy self except for the odd moment of discomfort, and I'm fairly certain his opinion was spot-on. I'm very happy to continue seeing him and to recommend him to anyone looking for a good vet. ;)

BTW - if you're not happy during an exam of your pet, feel free to ask questions or push for an explanation. I have found that most vets are more than happy to describe what they're looking at/for, and most are very happy to give as much info as is needed for you to understand what's happening. If they're not, then you need to find a new vet! We've done this once or twice over the years...while it's painful to start the search anew, it's worth it once you find that fabulous vet.

[petaj]

I agree it seemed inflammatory like the vet said noisymina I also hope I didn't come off as the know-it-all gal though either. It just worries me occasionally when people on the forum give confidence in a diagnosis with very limited history. I appreciate that people on here often are incredibly knowledgeable and very helpful to other owners, I was just trying to say that diagnosis is tricky and probably best done by someone that can see and investigate the lesion further etc. We had one girl in college get sick and when people told others what her symptoms were everyone was certain it was meningococcal infection. It turned out to be a bladder infection!

Glad the new vet is working out.

[zayda_asher]

I agree it seemed inflammatory like the vet said noisymina I also hope I didn't come off as the know-it-all gal though either. It just worries me occasionally when people on the forum give confidence in a diagnosis with very limited history.

I think you will find all of us on here share those concerns and that is why all of us who said it could be something said exactly that: "It could be", "It sounds like"... no one said "Oh its definitely this!" There's a big difference

Noisy, I'm glad that things seem to be going well with the new vet... Good vets are like gold!

Dan

[noisymina]

Thanks to all who responded.

As I said in the original post, I was considering taking her to another vet, not no vet at all!

I was seeking opinions - and am grateful for them all - because I wanted to canvas possibilities that I am/was not not aware of and so that I could gain information (whether general or specific) that would help me decide about changing vets. In addition, I was hoping to have more "up my sleeve" so I could ask intelligent questions when I got there! ;)

lillysmum - the other vet was very informative about his theory - it's just that it was a bit "off beam"

There were also other things that we were not "comfortable" with - his manner and the raised charges that we had not been warned about prior to consultation, for instance. My OH was with me on that visit and he felt the same!

So, let's see how things go. It could have been a lot worse.

[Muttaburra]

Sounds like a smart vet, interesting about the hair thingy getting blocked etc. Fascinating isn't it?

;)

[noisymina]

There is just so much to learn, isn't there?

I learned a lot from doing a search on some of the stuff mentioned, even tho it did not fit this particular situation - next time it might, who knows?

I like vets who listen- they learn from their clients just as much as the clients learn from them - you can tell the experienced ones, I think.

Also, some are more familiar with Dobes in particular and their quirks.

;)

[blacklabrador]

Noisy I am open to having a new vet after my beloved vet was replaced with a teenager in the practice I was going to. Not saying that teenagers don't make good vets - but I'll be happier to see the little know-it-all in 20 years time ;).

Please PM me with your newfound vet. If he is close to you he must be close to me