Barking And Lunging

[carolh]

I have a 6 month old German Shepherd that started barking and lunging when he see other dogs and sometimes even when he sees people approaching. This has been going on now for over 2 months. We are going to obedience training and have tried everything the trainer has told us but nothing seems to get through to him. He is now around 70 lbs and very strong. If we walk him when no one is around he's great, watches me, knows the word heel, runs when I do and slows down when I do and sits when I stop.

BUT, as soon as he sees anyone his hair goes up on the back of his neck and he lunges and barks like there is no tomorrow. We have also tried making him lay down and then give the okay to say hi but that doesn't work and all that ends up happening is the owner of the other dog gets scared.

We have tried keeping his attention by going off to the side of the sidewalk and getting him to sit stay, shake a paw, down stay and all the while keep saying watch me and if it's a person going by sometimes it works but only if we notice the person before he does. If it someone walking thier dog then forget it he doesn't even notice us there anymore.

Any suggestions?

[Nekhbet]

You have to work on 2 things - asserting yourself as the dogs leader and practicing Distraction.

Your dog sees the need to protect you, but you have to show him there is nothing to worry about. At the moment he's simply barking 'mum mum I'll protect you, hey you go away' and once his drive arks up you will have a lot of trouble controlling him. Also because you have been training under low - no stress environments, as soon as the dog goes into 'drive' as he does he will ignore you because its an overriding force in the animals brain.

Keep going to obedience, the trick is to keep him a sufficient distance from other people and train his obedience there. If he is comfortable then he will listen but he will also be around the distractions. Gradually get closer and closer, but keep his attention on you with a toy (prey drive) or with food. The trick is to keep his attention, train this for only short periods, like 15-20 minutes then give him a break. If he starts getting riled up do a quick about turn heel and get his attention back by waving the toy/food in front of his face to really get his attention back and then make him sit. Show him that paying attention and behaving is a better reward then acting like a nutter. As for people, when you have control THEN introduce people. If you dont trust him not to behave you are setting up a situation for disaster or setting your hard work back further.

If he does have very high drive then you may need to put him on a pinch collar (if you are not in Vic and have a good trainer show you how to use it) just so you can control him whilst walking. Dont bother with trying to push introducing him to other dogs you just keep building up his bad behaviour. He has you as his family he wont be missing much if he doesnt sniff hello to every dog in the street. Plus you struggling with him is another great way to have him listen to you less and less. The problem when dogs get into this drive 'mode' is anything you add (like a reward or correction) has to be really black and white to work. If you tug tug tug, plead, yell etc with the dog you add to the problem because he then equates you going 'NO NO NO' to him getting more excited. Dogs brains ...

I know its frustrating, I know its hard but you have a breed that is doing what its genetics are telling it to do. Unfortunately his brain is telling him to do this and its not being redirected. Training in drive will be the best way to curb this behaviour and working on him just chilling out in public and not feeling the need to go bananas! Dont forget his hormones are going to be up and down at this age, 12 months and around 16-18 months so be patient and calm with him. If you lose your cool (and trust me its easy to do ) he will just regress into bad habits.

Do a search for K9 force threads (triangle of temptation and Training in Drive) and try www.leerburg.com for some heavy reading on working Shepherds, Rotts, Dobes and Malinois.

[carolh]

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I am definately going to keep going to obedience even though he goes crazy every single time we get there .

I have one more question. A friend of ours has a shepherd as well that Cooper (our shepherd)has never met. They are having the same problem as we are and were wondering if we did some backyard training with the both of them. Thinking if we were to try to walk the dogs past each other and if one or the other or both go crazy with us trying to distract with food or toy then we would simply turn around. Do you think this to be a bad idea? Our trainer seems to think downing the dog first and then saying "okay say hi" will work. but we've tried this and it's not really working. I end up so tired from trying to hold on to him and of course lose my cool which as you said is not good for him.

I will also check out the pinch collar but until I can't hold him I want to keep trying without.

Again that you for your advise, I really appreciate any help I can get. He's a wonderful puppy and it's the only problem we have with him. I just didn't know whether I was expecting too much from him too fast. He's just so big now that I want to make sure I have him in my control by the time he's full grown. The last thing I want is to make things worse for him. We are hoping that we can start some agility training once he gets past this. He picks things up pretty fast as far as the rest of the training goes. At this point though taking him to shows would be impossible with all the other dogs.

[Nekhbet]

ooooh i just consider it double trouble. If the other dog was well trained and paid no attention to yours then maybe but two? I could see that ending in a big mess At the moment your dog seems to think that the whole 'OK say hi' bit means a free range to go spaz!

The dogs issues dont lie with other dogs, they lie with respect and the handler. Also dont feel the need, like many owners do, that your dog HAS to say hi and engage with other dogs. Why? let him expect that he does not get to sniff/touch any other dog when he goes out and you will find he will lose interest. If there is a possibility he gets to engage it will be another way he tries to push the limits with you. Playing at other peoples places or doggy get togethers can be a whole separate issue, but for now I would just cut the whole HI thing to keep it easier for you.

Plus whilst your pup is young they are impressionable, a dog that wags its tail and wants to say hi will come up and they can turn. Snap. Bite in the face and your dog develops a complex. Its happened to my Belgian bitch and trust me one growl and bite to the face can really rattle them and put your training back a long way. For that reason I dont like telling people to go let dogs they dont know come up to their dogs.

Start in the backyard ... progress to front yard, then your street, then walk to the shops etc. Baby steps. Keep everything black and white, be really consistant and the dog will get it.

[Dogsfevr]

Any practise like must be done with a very calm non reactive dogs,until as handlers you both have understaood how to control the dogs i agree it would be a double trouble disaster.

I would ask the trainers at obedience for more advice,nearly all the good clubs i now of have trainers there who will work one on one during the class to get you the extra help you need,if your club isnt good then maybe seek a new one

[carolh]

Wow, I sure don't need double trouble and I'm so glad that I asked the question before trying it. Thank you both for your advise.

As for our trainer, she's great and the only time she suggests the okay say hi is when he's acting crazy in class or when taking him to the pet store. I've actually stopped taking him to the pet store because I don't want any bad incidents. Like you say most people will feel the need for their dog to say hi and sometimes it not pretty.

There are 6 other dogs in the class and most of the time Cooper will bark and lunge all the way from the truck to the class. It's a little embarrassing. Once he's said hi to everyone he's pretty good. But of course these are dogs he see every week.

Cooper was actually not that bad with his walk last night. I bought some different treats (liver) and it worked pretty good. I just held it right in front of his nose as we passed 2 barking dogs and he acknowledged them by a quick glance but then his attention came right back to me. Once we passed them I sat him and praised him for being such a good boy. Now remember this was just one time we'll see how it goes tonight

We have another German Shepherd but he is totally opposite so this is quite a change in training. Max couldn't care less about other dogs but he will go nuts for people only because they mean play time. :cool: Tail wagging and toy in mouth kind of crazy.

Everyone tells me that he will get it but my fear is that we will have a bad encounter before he does. I will make sure to keep him a safe distance for now and then gradually get a little closer to approaching dogs and owners.

Thanks very much for the helpful advise. :p

[Nekhbet]

I know there are little vests that are in fluro material and have something like 'give me space' or likewise printed on them. Your dog still needs to learn but if you can advertise the fact he needs to concentrate without having to try and intercepts a hundred ooohing and aaaaahin people then its a great help

... try taking a big Bordeaux somewhere and not have a crowd gather and slather him with attention and pats hehehehe I know what you go through

by the way ... where are the photo come on come on we need photos! I'm a sucker for nice GSD ... I'll swap you for a photo of my old girl Sheba who I had to PTS last year at about 14 years old.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Nekhbet

[carolh]

I know there are little vests that are in fluro material and have something like 'give me space' or likewise printed on them. Your dog still needs to learn but if you can advertise the fact he needs to concentrate without having to try and intercepts a hundred ooohing and aaaaahin people then its a great help

... try taking a big Bordeaux somewhere and not have a crowd gather and slather him with attention and pats hehehehe I know what you go through

by the way ... where are the photo :rolleyes: come on come on we need photos! I'm a sucker for nice GSD ... I'll swap you for a photo of my old girl Sheba who I had to PTS last year at about 14 years old.

Edited June 7, 2006 by carolh

[carolh]

We lost out 9 year old shepherd in November last year. Your Sheba was beautiful, our Jerry was mostly Black and I'll locate a picture of him for you in the next couple of days.

Here's one of Cooper that I took on the weekend. I have taped his ears up since the picture because as you can see they don't seem to want to stay up for some reason. The breeder says he may need a little help and actually should stay up around 7 months but if not try taping them. He looks his part with them taped...like a little devil. :rolleyes:

<img src="http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4281/cooper6months24nz.jpg">

Edited June 7, 2006 by carolh

[carolh]

We lost out 9 year old shepherd in November last year. Your Sheba was beautiful, our Jerry was mostly Black and I'll locate a picture of him for you in the next couple of days.

Here's one of Cooper that I took on the weekend. I have taped his ears up since the picture because as you can see they don't seem to want to stay up for some reason. The breeder says he may need a little help and actually should stay up around 7 months but if not try taping them. He looks his part with them taped...like a little devil. :rolleyes:

<img src="http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4281/cooper6months24nz.jpg">

[Nekhbet]

teething and hormones make them flop ... never had a problem with my shepherd and my betty eared Malinois never even flopped over AT ALL :rolleyes: nerny ner ner

I heard Vit C and some shark cartilage can help build the cartilage in the ears

He's soooooo cute, what a boooootiful boy!

[carolh]

As you can now tell I am new at this forum and seem to keep repeating the reply but I will get this... :rolleyes:

Here is a picture of our black shepherd Jerry who we lost last year. I miss him so much he was pretty special.

Max is our 7 year old on the left.

Edited June 7, 2006 by carolh

[neigepearl]

Hi Carol h,

Distraction is the best method I've seen. Get him focused on you with food or his favourite toy. Praise when he ignores them.

Best way to do it is practice. Get a friend /with their dog to walk past (a few metres away) and practice.

[carolh]

Hi Carol h,

Distraction is the best method I've seen. Get him focused on you with food or his favourite toy. Praise when he ignores them.

Best way to do it is practice. Get a friend /with their dog to walk past (a few metres away) and practice.

Thanks for the advise. We have another dog and now that Cooper is pretty good at walking until of course he sees someone else I think we will try that again. We tried it a couple of months ago and it tired me trying to keep his attention on me. My other half took Max and walked him on the other side of the street and it was mission impossible even with the treat right in front of his nose. But he's a little better now so we'll give it another shot.