Anthony G Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Hi, I have a problem with my little 17week old Japanese Spitz. It goes wherever I go, even if its tea time already, no matter how hungry she is, she just follows and only eats when im near her. Her food is outside and we leave the sliding door open letting her go in and out as she pleases. During the day when my wife and I go to work, we leave her outside in the backyard. All day she'll be there running around, playing, sleeping, etc. When i get home, i was told from puppy school that i shouldn't open the door straight away and let them in. is this the right way? I just have this theory that im confusing her. this backyard is where she's supposed to wee/poo, eat and yet this is where i leave her during the day. She sleeps with us during the night. She has learned not to poo in the room anymore, but still pees in the room before sleeping. even if its just a little trickle. and yes, i go out regularly with her. My problem is, crying whenever i leave her, wouldnt eat unless im there, wont go outside to pee unless i bring her outside (an exception is before sleeping, she wont wee until we get in our room during the night). I just want her to be confident enough to just go out and wee/poo... or eat... then come back in when done. should i lock her outside to make her eat while i wait by the door? maybe she's scared that i would leave her again (as i do during the day). am i confusing her? im confused myself, i didnt know i have that many problems til i wrote this thread. help? anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindie Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 This does sound like mild separation anxiety, but she is very young so it may just be that she needs to be around people and is a little bit timid when she is by herself. Don't make a big fuss over her when you get home from work. This will mean that she doesn't spend all day longing for your rearrival. Leave her outside for a little while when you get home. When she wees in your room at night, if you catch her, firmly say no, otherwise wipe it up with paper towel and take it and your puppy outside. Put the paper towel down where you would prefer that she wees and praise her heavily when she smells it. Your puppy will connect the smell to this location. Does she always wee in the same spot? This may mean that you are not getting the smell up when you clean. Try using white vinegar when cleaning wee to mask the smell. It might be a good idea to have her sleep outside of your bedroom to stop her from getting too attached to you. Give her a place that is her own. Try a crate. This will make her feel comfortable away from you. If she is not eating on her own, try feeding her and standing with her but at a distance. Get distracted by something so that you aren't watching her. This will give her the confidence to eat on her own. Gradually move further away from her over a number of days as her comfort level increases. Eventually you should be able to be inside while she eats outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony G Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 Thank you for your reply. With regards to leaving her outside for a while.. how long is a while? once she knows im home, she keeps on jumping against the door... do i open the blinds to let her see me? or just leave it closed? i've left her outside today for 15 minutes, and that was killing me coz she just wont stop trying to get in. is 15 minutes okay? or is that too cruel already? with regards to wee-ing, yeh, im still working on catching her in the act. and i will try the letting her sniff it outside bit, if she does it tonight. I dont think my wife will let me let her sleep in another room. she has her own bed in our room, and its a few steps away. it used to be just next to the bed, but im slowly moving that further away from the bed gradually. I guess it will just be a longer way of training aye? but will the distance still build even if she sleeps in our room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Oh, goodness, she's a BABY. I would advise to bring her inside and crate her if needed, but this girl needs your reassurance and your presence above everything else ATM. I also believe from experience, that the easiest and least confusing way to house train a dog is to keep them indoors at all times, taking them outside primarily to toilet. You need to name the behaviour and ask for the behaviour. My three all toilet on command. It's a very valuable lesson to help your dog learn. Your dog is a baby and as such, is behaving as you would expect: being clingy and confused about your role in her life is normal. It's up to you to reassure her that you are protecting her, that you are helping her to learn how to live in your family, and that, no matter what, she CAN rely on you to meet her needs. I doubt this is a genuine case of SA - I have two with moderate to severe SA and believe me, this is unlikely to be it...if she was digging up your yard, howling all the time you are absent, getting through the fence to find you, or harming herself b/c she was trying to dig out through concrete, then you would likely be facing SA. But what you describe is normal puppy behaviour IMO. So, to sum up: bring her inside at least for now. Crate or otherwise confine her when you can't be there to supervise. Have her sleep in her crate in your room at night. Provide safe toys and activities for when she's alone. Begin alone training if you haven't already started (but I'm supposing you have and it's just not working yet). Hang in there. It will get better. Oh, and if you haven't already got some reading material, I'd strongly suggest you get a few good, recent, puppy raising books and refer to them as you need to. :D HTH. Please keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony G Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 yes... she is still a baby... unfortunately, i dont think i can leave her indoors during the day as she might trigger the alarm, and might break furnitures and cause trouble when my wife and i are both at work. we're getting a pomeranian in 2 weeks time (he will be 8 weeks old by then), i guess my goal is to get the japanese spitz (arwen) trained first, so that she will be the dominant one, and the pomeranian (aragorn), will just follow her lead. i monitor her via webcam everyday, i guess its not really SA, as she stops after a while(not quite sure how long, but by the time i get to work, she has already calmed down) and gets on with her business outside... playing, sniffing around, sleeping most of the time, and sometimes finding a wood chip from the garden and start biting it. I have tried confining her in the beginning, we bought vinyl for her little area in our room... i think it was 4x4m, we ended up hearing a lot of whining and jumping and scratching, trying to get out of there.. which was affecting our sleeping pattern. and plus, she wakes up before us, so she couldn't wake us up when she needs to wee. nowadays, she wakes us in the morning to bring her outside (and this is without confinement, i saw that as progress) shes more secure seeing us when she sleeps... even though she is far from us and not on the same bed, as long as we are there.. and she can get to us anytime she wants, then its fine by her. she hasnt wee'ed tonight in our bedroom....yet, maybe coz we just finished her 'before to bed wee', we'll see when we wake up tomorrow. no i havent got any books to read, ive just been relying on puppy school materials + articles on the internet. ill start looking for one this weekend. thank you again for ur reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Hi Anthony, Have you read up on crate training? I recommend you read this thread. It's a little unfair to have the pup sleep in your room, but then complain about interrupted sleep ;) Puppies interrupt sleep, LOL, they are babies - but a much better option is to have them crated, OK in your room to begin with but as they get older, in another room away from yours. They learn - it is their bed, it is sleep time. Trust me - they learn, I've never had one yet that doesn't! Also if crated, she won't have the opportunity to wee on your bedroom floor anymore; you take her outside, she goes to the toilet, you make a fuss of her, and you bring her inside and put her in her crate. Just a word of warning... I think it's a very big expectation to have Arwen show the new pup "the ropes" in 2 weeks time. Having an older, trained dog does help with a new pup yes, but Arwen is still only a baby herself... so be very prepared to be training two pups, not just one, two weeks from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony G Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 (edited) thank you for ur reply meriment. and yeh... i guess its gonna be 'training 2 pups' then.. *gulp* good luck to me. OH.. and i wasnt complaining about the little one waking me up to go wee... thats fine by me, its usually in the morning already anyway and we have to get up for work. its when she is confined that prevents us from sleeping... she'd scratch and scratch and won't stop. i guess it'll be the same when i start her off with crate training? how long does it usually take before they stop whining in their crates?? anthony g Edited May 24, 2006 by Anthony G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 How long is a piece of string? I'd say each pup would be different with crate training. I personally don't start them in our room - I have them in the laundry or living room - away from the human's bedrooms. I may be wrong but I'd imagine that her being able to see you and knowing you are there but ignoring her, would contribute to her demand to be let out. I start crating them immediately 6-8 wks old - after a play outside and been to the toilet, I put them in their crate, close the door and leave them. It may take 5 minutes, it may take 50 minutes, for them to settle down. Then I leave them - 20-30 minutes to begin with, and get them out before they start crying again. Straight outside to the toilet, more play time, and repeat the process. Then build up from there. The trick is to never go to them or get them out while they are carrying on crying, barking etc. Personally I've had pups at 10-12 weeks old that will, by that stage, go in their crate at bed time (10-10.30pm) and sleep all thru the night til 6.30am with no crying and no messing their beds. I may not have bred and sold many, but those people who have bought puppies from me have never had a moments trouble from them, not on the first night, not ever - and I know that is due to the ground work I put in with crate training them from the onset. They all bought crates for their pups and the pups all settled in like ducks to water ;) thank you for ur reply meriment. and yeh... i guess its gonna be 'training 2 pups' then.. *gulp* good luck to me.OH.. and i wasnt complaining about the little one waking me up to go wee... thats fine by me, its usually in the morning already anyway and we have to get up for work. its when she is confined that prevents us from sleeping... she'd scratch and scratch and won't stop. i guess it'll be the same when i start her off with crate training? how long does it usually take before they stop whining in their crates?? anthony g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Yes, crate training pays off so many times over...especially if you get them into the crate training from the day you bring them home. I crate trained Molly literally in one day...she *loves* her crate and chooses to put herself to bed some nights well before everyone else is ready! Molly was about 2 yrs old when I adopted her, so you can teach an old(er) dog new tricks. :D You need to be consistent and patient in most cases, and reward the behaviour you want in the dog, and ignore the behaviour you don't want. Crating your dog means that you know s/he won't destroy your place b/c s/he is confined. Crating your dog also means that toilet training is very easy as most pups (except some pet shop pups) don't want to use their bed as their toilet. I don't envy you having to try to train two pups simultaneously. That is a whole lot of hard work to take on at once! Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony G Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 what if i do a little confinement.. not a crate.. but its bigger space, the one i started with in the first place... the problem with that is, she wont be able to see us, its in the same room, its at the corner, and she will have 4 by 4 metres of space, and i used my old cushion for my single bed to block her... yes? no? or will that give her room to wee and it will be next to her bed? i have til this weekend to decide as i dont have the time to buy a crate til then. and maybe it might save me a bit of money if that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 4x4 metres is a big space for a small dog. Yes she will toilet in there. It won't have the same affect as a crate at all. This is something you already tried, and it didn't work out because she scrached, cried, etc and it kept you awake. My guess is you'll get the same reaction if you try her in there again. What's the point :D The advice you've been given to crate train your pup (and the new one when it comes along) is the way to go. what if i do a little confinement.. not a crate.. but its bigger space, the one i started with in the first place... the problem with that is, she wont be able to see us, its in the same room, its at the corner, and she will have 4 by 4 metres of space, and i used my old cushion for my single bed to block her...yes? no? or will that give her room to wee and it will be next to her bed? i have til this weekend to decide as i dont have the time to buy a crate til then. and maybe it might save me a bit of money if that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony G Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 crate training it is. OH... and how will i know its time to put down the crate? or is this gonna be a forever thing? and can i ask, can u train a puppy to bark at the door when he/she wants it opened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meriment Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 No need to ever take the crate away. Instead of a kennel or a basket, she has a crate My dogs are 3 yrs and 1 yr old and they sleep in their crates every night and they go in there whenever we are out, when we have visitors, etc. a puppy can't tell you when he/she wants to go to the toilet and thus ask you to open the door. You just keep taking them out to their toilet place regularly, and you'll always be one step ahead of them Thinking about it, if I'm home of an evening and have my dogs inside with me, loose not crated, I would let them out every 1-2 hours and they always pee - and they are adults, not pups. They can be fast asleep on the couch but when I say "wanna go wees?" they are at the back door ready to go in a flash :D crate training it is.OH... and how will i know its time to put down the crate? or is this gonna be a forever thing? and can i ask, can u train a puppy to bark at the door when he/she wants it opened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindie Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Most dogs, as they get older, will learn to let you know when they need to go out, this takes time though so you will need to take your puppy out regularly. If she cries or barks at the back door and then goes outside to wee, praise her heavily. This will let her know that this is what you want her to do. Dog's tend not to wee near their bed, so when in the crate, you will find she will wee as far from her bed as she can. If she is comfortable sleeping in your room, try putting the crate in your room to train her and as she gets comfortable, slowly move it further away from you, if you want her to sleep further away. Crates are a good idea as your puppy will feel safe there. You can use it forever if you want or, once you get her sleeping where you want her to, and once she is a bit older, you can remove the crate and replace it with a bed. First, put the bed in the crate so she gets used to sleeping on it, then you can remove the crate and just leave the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony G Posted May 26, 2006 Author Share Posted May 26, 2006 thank you for the info everyone. gonna get the crates this weekend. need 2.... coz the pomeranian is coming in less than 2 weeks. and yes i know... its gonna be hard doing 2 pups in 1 go.... i saw the suggestions from that person with 2 pups. hehe. and argh.. the poms gonna be a barker! *gulp* i hope ill be one of those ppl in the future telling new owners to get crates. im kinda confident it will work anyway, from what everyone has said, so yeh... here goes.... ciao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 crate training it is.OH... and how will i know its time to put down the crate? or is this gonna be a forever thing? and can i ask, can u train a puppy to bark at the door when he/she wants it opened? Forever!! Mine LOVE their crates!! Kaos is in hers alseep right now (Atlas is on my bed lol) If they are playing with a toy they usually take it into their crates, if they dont feel well, or if its cold - they go to their crates. They make things so much easier for car trips and also if the dog has to stay at the vets for some reason. For the toilet training - when i first got Atlas, i set my alarm every 2 hours (he was 8 weeks) I would take him out, wait until he went to the loo, then put him back to bed - no play time. After a week i put it up to 3 hours - and so on until he slept the whole night. I tried the same thing with kaos, but as she was older i Put the time to about 4 hours - she woke me up at 3 hours to go. Then every other time she needed to go out she learnt to bark and i would take her out!! Now they both let me know when its pee time (woke up with kaos sitting o nmy head last night - i didnt hear her barking and she broke out of the crate to get me!) Good luck with the puppies!! Glad im not training 2 at once !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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