Crate Training?

[princessbella]

I've heard good things about crate training, but want some more opinions on it before trying it out. Bella cries if I try and put her in the bathroom so she's been sleeping on a fluffy mat on the floor next to my bed. During the night she gets up and pee's and poo's all over the place and then chews things up.

She's at higher risk of health problems if she's sleeps outside being a bulldog and is too young anyway.

Frodo happily sleeps outside in his kennel, but I think he would be less jealous if he could see Bella sleeping in a crate at night (it would be in sight of Frodo). At the moment, for all he knows, she's sleeping in bed with me, which is unfair. I tried him inside last night and he scratched to go outside where he usually sleeps.

Any suggestion would be great

TIA

Edited May 21, 2006 by princessbella

[Erny]

Tia .... with all the suggestions, tips and hints that have been given to you so far, I suspect you know the answer to your problems already. If your pup toilets inside the house, then that's one less toilet that it would have done outside and one less time for opportunity to reinforce toileting in the right area. The more you fail to prevent accidents happening inside the house, the longer housetraining will take and the less reliable it will be ..... all because, at the very beginning, you were not consistent and vigilant.

No, crate training isn't cruel. What would make you think it so? Pups and Dogs prefer to soil away from their sleeping and eating areas (unless pups are born and raised in an environment where they could not help but fail to develop the habit of soiling away from those areas). The point of the crate is to encourage the pup to 'hold on', giving you a chance to get the pup out for toileting in the correct place and then reinforcing it for doing so.

I would recommend you purchase the book "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. Amongst other things that I know would be beneficially educational, there is a really well described section on crate training and how to do it. It too points out that PREVENTION of accidents inside the house is the way to go. Unfortunately, many people who acquire pups don't think about the temporary disruption to their normal routines - and yet it puzzles me that a real break from routine and dedication and vigilance towards a new born baby is naturally accepted and quite often understood without having read books, asked questions etc.

Eg. Why does my pup chew things it shouldn't? Because it has access. But if one had a newly crawling toddler, we seem to be able to automatically think to baby proof the house to prevent access to these sorts of things, and/or purchase a play pen for the toddler to safely play in when we can't be as vigilent as necessary. And when people bring their newborn baby home, they don't seem to expect they can go to bed and sleep uninterrupted until their usual wake up time. Why do we seem to expect to be able to do that when we bring home a puppy? In fact, I think the job of rearing a pup in those early weeks demands even more vigilance, because it not only has to learn the habits that we want it to learn, but many of those behaviours are natural to a dog and we have to turn those behaviours around to something that suits our human requirements in the household.

Crate train your puppy - go ahead. It is a good thing, when done properly. And be vigilant when your pup's inside. PREVENT the accidents. Take your pup out often for toilet opportunities, which, as I said, are opportunities for you to reinforce it.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

I've been using dog crates for a while now and I don't think the dogs think it's cruel at all. In fact, Molly's bed is inside her crate (right next to my bed) and she can't wait to get in there every night! She also chooses to spend most of her day crated even though the crate door is open and she has acces to the bathroom and hallway as well as my bedroom. How do I know this? Her toys are *always* in her bed in the crate when I get home, no matter where they began the day (usually on the floor outside the crate).

Crates are useful tools in so many situations. I use one for Molly's safety and comfort (she's much smaller than the other two dogs and is liable to get squashed in the night), and it made toilet training her that much easier (she was adopted aged two yrs but had never been properly toilet trained, but she is now).

I've recently loaned a large wire crate to my sister for her three dogs (they're all toy-sized and all sleep together) and they also love being crated at night. Previously they slept in the laundry and now they're in the living room, so I'm sure they much prefer the crate option!

If you want to train your pup, now is the time to start, and crate training is so simple as long as you remember to make it positive and fun. Do not use a crate for a "time out" type of punishment, b/c then your dog will associate "bad things" with "crate time". You don't want that.

[lab and poodle]

There was sliced bread and then there was crates... I wouldn't ever think about bringing up a pup without one ever again. They are an instant relationship improver, safety device and housetraining aid.

BTW I highly reccomend the Culture Clash as does Erny. Some of it is quite funny too.

[princessbella]

Never heard of that book before, I'll be getting asap. I also never heard of crate training beofre today, so wasn't quite sure of what it was meant to help with. So, she would sleep in there at night, and for now I would get up and let her outside for a wee when ever she wakes, if it be hourly or only once through the night?

I don't mind getting up to let her out as long as I know that's what she wants. ATM she wakes when I'm alseep and just goes and wees and poo's without making a noise and I don't know till I wake in the morning. Honestly I expected this, but was just curious on how to train her not to do it in the house when I let her do it at night.

Frodo is house trained, I can't even remember how I did it I think he just realised it pissed me off when he did it inside, so was smart enough not to at around 6 months old.

When it comes to chewing things up, having 4 kids, it's hard to make sure all the leads to their X-box's and playstaions etc and toys are put away. I have given Bella her own chew toys, but she likes computer cords and telephone cords etc if she was a crawling infant, she wouldn't be left to roam the house at night on her own I guess that's what the crate is good for

I'll have to try and get one second hand. They seem to be more expensive than a kennel

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott

[princessbella]

Am bidding on one at ebay, will prolly miss out though (I always do ), but till I get one, do you think a baby portacot would do the trick?

[spikey]

Crates are the best thing EVER - I wish they'd been a common thing when I was raising my two previous dogs (GSDs). Crates aren't exactly cheap but you can get good quality ones that aren't hugely expensive either, and the metal crates will last for years (and possibly even outlast the dog). We have 3 crates (although only 2 dogs ) One is an airline crate (solid plastic) which I bought off Ebay - it is an extra large one and they rarely come up, especially here in WA, so I was delighted to win the bidding on that one. We also have two collapsible PetMate metal crates which I bought from a local pet supplies store - the large one just fits in the back of the station wagon and is excellent for separating our two dogs - our adult girl tends to be really hyper in the car and we were afraid she'd squash her little brother! So pup travels in the crate, he goes in quite happily and almost immediately lies down and goes to sleep for the whole journey and it also gives our other dog much less room to hoon around in so makes trips much better (and safer) for all of us. We can then take this crate out of the car for use at shows. The other crate is an extra-large one, and our pup sleeps in that crate (with a puppy pen attached) and will also suit him well once he is fully grown.

The airline crate currently sits in the corner (we used it for pup to sleep in before we got the really big crate) and quite often our adult dog will go and have a sleep in there while we're watching TV etc - she's never had any crate training at all but is still quite happy to lie in it. This crate will come in handy when the winter weather arrives and pup needs more protection from the cold at shows and we also hope to attend some specialty shows in the eastern states maybe next year so it will be perfect for transporting our boy.

There's certainly nothing cruel about crate training that I can see. Our pup is confined during the night so can't get into any mischief, and he whines to be let out if he needs to go to the toilet (they don't like to pee or poo where they sleep if they can possibly avoid it), which is very rarely - from the age of 10 weeks he was able to go through until 6am without needing to go out. Just a tip - when crate training your pup, if you take her out to go to the toilet during the night, make sure she is on a lead so you have control over where she goes - otherwise you'll find you have a pup who thinks it's a great adventure going outside with you in the middle of the night and will want to galumph all round the garden and totally forget about going for a pee/poo! If she is on a lead, she will soon learn these nocturnal trips are for toileting, not for play.

We also invested in 5 baby gates, 3 metal ones with swinging gates and two wooden ones to block off areas whether either the dogs are not allowed because it's dangerous (i.e. bathroom in the process of being renovated and our home gym area) or where they are only allowed when we are with them (such as our main carpeted lounge where all our DVDs are!). They aren't cheap either (although you can get them secondhand at a cheaper price) but the amount they have probably saved us in things being destroyed/chewed up etc, carpets ruined by "accidents" and also the time saved in us not having to watch the pup every second so he didn't go somewhere he shouldn't or get hold of something he shouldn't, has certainly made the cost worthwhile. We needed lots of gates because neither of the lounge entrances or the hallways have doors that we can shut to keep woofers out!

I'd definitely have to say the combination of crates and baby gates has saved our sanity when it comes to puppy raising!

[princessbella]

Spikey I'm bidding on a large metal/collapsable crate with tent like fabric around it. I'm the only bidder atm starting at 99cents it's $30 delivery, so will probably go to $30 max. If I miss out I'll use the portacot till I can get a crate

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Brand new wire crates are not expensive. For a medium-sized dog, the most you ought to pay is around $180-$200. I have four crates, two airline and two wire folding types. Total outlay for the lot? About $380 or $400. Shop around and you ought to find them new at a reasonable price unless you're in a remote area (and we bought the two wire ones in Darwin, so "shipping" charges also applied ).

I would not use a portacot for a dog unless you don't care if it's destroyed. Urine will corrode the timber base if it has one...puppy teeth will quickly chew through the mesh sides.

[princessbella]

I'll be donating the cot to her to keep

It will only be short term anyway cause I plan on getting a crate.

I do worry that she will chew through the mesh and get out though, but it's worth a try.

It's metal framed, I'm not sure what the base is made of, but it's waterproof lined and I will be putting the mat over it.

Hopefully Bella well let me know when she needs a wee and the cot will stay dry *fingers crossed*.

[Erny]

I don't mind getting up to let her out as long as I know that's what she wants. ATM she wakes when I'm alseep and just goes and wees and poo's without making a noise and I don't know till I wake in the morning.

This is just it - you're relying on a puppy to somehow know that it should let you know it needs the toilet. A toilet trained dog (with toilet training well completed) will often do this because it's LEARNT not to go in the house. Don't expect it from a pup who hasn't learnt to not toilet inside and is, in fact, learning that it's ok to do so. What say you set the alarm clock and get up a few times throughout the night. Within one or two days/nights you should be able to assess when your pup needs/wants to go. When you work out that it is (eg) 4.00 am, get up at 3.30 am and take it to toilet. Then stretch it out in time increments - say 20-30 mins. Your pup's bladder has to train to hold on for longer periods at a time.

Honestly I expected this, but was just curious on how to train her not to do it in the house when I let her do it at night.

Precisely my point.

Frodo is house trained, I can't even remember how I did it I think he just realised it pissed me off when he did it inside, so was smart enough not to at around 6 months old.

Count yourself lucky. Truthfully, I would have thought people would have checked this sort of stuff out before they get their pups home, so they know what to do for the best, rather than waiting for the problems and then asking. But hey, here we are - ever ready to help out provided you follow the advice.

When it comes to chewing things up, having 4 kids, it's hard to make sure all the leads to their X-box's and playstaions etc and toys are put away. I have given Bella her own chew toys, but she likes computer cords and telephone cords etc if she was a crawling infant, she wouldn't be left to roam the house at night on her own I guess that's what the crate is good for

You guessed it! But don't think for a second that means you can crate your pup and ignore for long periods. It's only for those moments when you can't keep a strict eye on her. And if you leave her in it for longer than her bladder can cope, you'll teach her to soil her bed as well. Although I can only imagine how hard it would be having 4 kids and shuffling around them all the time (I presume they are only very youngsters, seeing as they haven't learnt to put their things away), I'm surprised if this is the case that you manage to find the time for one, let alone two, dogs!

Edited May 21, 2006 by Erny

[princessbella]

Truthfully, I would have thought people would have checked this sort of stuff out before they get their pups home, so they know what to do for the best, rather than waiting for the problems and then asking. But hey, here we are - ever ready to help out provided you follow the advice.

I don't know exaclty how to house train, which is why sites like these were put up It's not like I wouldn't have gotten pets because they need training. Like with the children, they didn't come with instructions, I ask advise on the best why of handeling situations and take it from there. There are parenting sites just like there is this dog site I've only had Bella for 2 nights, so I think I've jumped in pretty fast with asking advise, waiting for problems would be me not asking for help with house training till say a month down the track.

What say you set the alarm clock and get up a few times throughout the night. Within one or two days/nights you should be able to assess when your pup needs/wants to go. When you work out that it is (eg) 4.00 am, get up at 3.30 am and take it to toilet. Then stretch it out in time increments - say 20-30 mins. Your pup's bladder has to train to hold on for longer periods at a time.

thanks I will do that tonight

[lab and poodle]

Don't think you have to buy a huge crate. Look at what dogs are reccommended for your dog and keep to it. It is a bit like "My dog is running all over our block acres what ever, free as a bird". Probably best to check with the dog as he/she would say "I feel really stressed. I have all this land to guard and nobody to help me"

[cavNrott]

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Edited May 8, 2009 by cavNrott

[Bully]

Crates are the best thing since slice bread. Even better than sliced bread Don't know what I'd do without a crate.

Pele, AKA "The Feral Peril" just loves her crate. She sleeps in it at night. I leave the door open at night. Now that the mornings are darker and colder I have to bribe her out with liver treats At dog shows she can't wait until I assemble her crate so that she can get in. When we walk up to the local deli to get the paper, I tie her up outside and before a can step inside she's shrieking. Embarrassing!!!

I've got 2 large 90 x 60cm crates. I paid about $70 - $80 at "Cheap As Chips for one. It has a sloping front to put in a station wagon. The other I paid about $90 through my Bull Terrier Club.

I LUV CRATES!!!!

[Maile]

Crates are the best thing ever! It makes toilet-training so much easier and also stops you from worrying about your dog's safety if it is left alone at home.

I dont think crates are cruel. So far, my puppies go into their crate willingly. I read in a RSPCA dog book stating that if you train your dog using crate in a correct way, it will treat it as a sanctuary and a safety place.

So, good luck in crate training! It really is worth it!

[Tassie]

Another here who says 'yay for crates'. Actually, apart from the one in the car, I don't use them at home now the dogs are grown, but they were a godsend when they were pups. I had each pup in a crate (covered with a blanket) right beside my bed. That way it was easy to get up when necessary, put the lead on the pup, take it out to pee or whatever, then straight back in and back into the crate. I still take my dogs out on lead if they need to go out in the night - makes sure they are just doing the necessary, and not going crittering over an acre of ground.

My two just love crates - their own (which I use at trials, going visiting etc.) - or anyone else's . And they generalised from wire crates to tents to plastic crates - no problems.

A side benefit is less stress if they have to be crated for any reason.

[Keen]

I avoided using a crate - figuring I had house trained many dogs in the past without one, and believing confining a pup overnight was a bit cruel...

Then, due to a family emergency, we found we had to take our dogs with us to stay with family and the only thing I could think of to keep the pup from messing in someone else's house over night was to crate her. I thought I should put the puppy in the crate at our house first (we had 3 days with the crate) as a practice run. Well, I am a convert! How wonderful NOT to wake up to crap and wee all over the laundry floor and an excited pup (who had usually walked in one or the other) trying to jump all over me! (Oh yeah - no smell either...) It's GREAT! No more cleaning and washing the laundry floor every morning, spreading/taking out 'loaded' newspaper... washing little feet... washing dog towels and mop-up cloths...

The pup has picked up the toilet training much quicker now, as the overnight waiting has taught her to hold on. She has not messed her bed once overnight. In the morning she goes outside and after a little sniff around the garden, (so I can see that she is not 'busting') she does what she has to do. And I don't make a special point of getting up super early each day to let the pup out of the crate. If I am asleep, the pup stays in her crate. I sleep in on weekends, so do my dogs. Crates are great, and coming from a horrible old sceptic like me, that is praise indeed!

[SpikesPuppy]

Another here who says "YAY for the crate!" Since I used one for my puppy 19 months ago, we've since bought crates for our older dogs as well and they've all readily accepted them and I almost feel guilty that they DIDN'T have crates as youngsters.

If you have visitors who don't like dogs, or even if your kids have some rowdy friends over- you can keep your dog safely out of harm's way, or if you just leave the door open- the dog can go in there whenever it pleases; teach your kids that the crate is 'Bella's special spot' or something, it's her spot where she is NOT to be disturbed. It's her bedroom.

And if you go away on holidays- dogs that are crate-trained are generally more welcome than non-crate trained animals.

Where abouts in Melbourne are you? If you're near the city, Upmarket pets (across from the Queen Vic Market) has good wire crates at good prices. As does the pet shop inside the Vic Market.