MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 She is on the tie out, Im by her side or on an angle, she goes towards the food, cant get it, sits, looks at me than drops puts head on the paws not looking. I can say her name she will look momentarily than not look again. If I leave her not doing anything she will get up and find anything to occupy herself with, there is nothing around, so she bites the leash and plays with it. I can pull her up and resit her but dont think that the aim of the excercise is to correct the dogs position, by hands. Please correct me if Im wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) I don't know sorry..... I just remember having the same problem with Bear and when I asked K9 Force what to do if my memory serves me correctly he said to pull him back up to a sit as he was still on the tie out and I was still next to him. I could be completely wrong...don't worry about me Edited July 13, 2006 by Alibear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I have to admit that I have done that, if she got up I sat her if she droped I resited her, but how does this make her look at me for longer periods of time? If I resit her she will sit there that isnt a problem, she sits for everything now, for food, before I open the door/gate, before I play with her etc. The prob is the attention on me. Maybe she does have a very short attention span... This morning I shortened the sitting to make her win/succeed at the excercise, I also spoke to her when she was sitting and looking at me. But is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 One more prob.... After I release her and lets say I feed her outside she will grab a mouthfull of food and follow me home. I go inside she stands at the door. She might go back for some more food but will not finish her food at all, will eat way less than half of what she should. Now - I assumed she isnt hungry enough - she is hungry there is no way she isnt. I dont want her starving every second day to raise her food drive, she is a small pupp and is skinny already, too skinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 This morning I shortened the sitting to make her win/succeed at the excercise Thats what I would have done.... Just slowly extend the time each day? I dont want her starving every second day to raise her food drive, she is a small pupp and is skinny already, too skinny. How long are you leaving the food out for her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Just slowly extend the time each day? it doesnt seem to extend, this is what Im saying. should I be speaking to her or not while she is looking at me? How long are you leaving the food out for her? 10 minutes? it makes no difference, she wont go back to it even if its there for an hour. Dont forget I feed all natural, very often its a big bone or a chicken carcass etc. it takes her time to go through the food. Maybe the biting through tough bones is tiring and she needs a rest??? In reality Im finding excuses for her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 M: Ok so she kidna got the idea, only took us two weeks K9: Something is wrong, she isnt in food drive... She gives me great eye contact for lets say 10-15 seconds. If I dont release her she goes into a drop puts her head on her front paws and doesnt look at me any more, nor at the food. K9: where does it say that she needs to look at you for 10 - 15 seconds plus? If you were trying to build up long eye contact, you would repeatedly "mark" her with the yes word.... I have a feeling that if I keep her like that she will fall asleep as she knows she cant go anywhere. K9: which proves she isnt in drive... Drive means that she will be recieving subconscious stimuli & this is why they learn so fast in the triangle M: She is on the tie out, Im by her side or on an angle, K9: no "on angle", by her side. Every time.. she goes towards the food, cant get it, sits, looks at me than drops puts head on the paws not looking. I can say her name she will look momentarily than not look again. If I leave her not doing anything she will get up and find anything to occupy herself with, there is nothing around, so she bites the leash and plays with it. I can pull her up and resit her but dont think that the aim of the excercise is to correct the dogs position, by hands. Please correct me if Im wrong. K9: the desired outcome for step one is that the millisecond the dog looks at you it heres & learns the word yes. Through its own actions. As soon as you have achieved this, you go for a momentary sit. Not 10 - 15 seconds of nothing... I have to admit that I have done that, if she got up I sat her if she droped I resited her, but how does this make her look at me for longer periods of time? K9: thats a later excercise, the dog hasnt got the hang of it & your at 10 - 15 seconds... This is a mistake.. This morning I shortened the sitting to make her win/succeed at the excercise, I also spoke to her when she was sitting and looking at me. But is this correct? K9: yes. After I release her and lets say I feed her outside she will grab a mouthfull of food and follow me home. I go inside she stands at the door. She might go back for some more food but will not finish her food at all, will eat way less than half of what she should.Now - I assumed she isnt hungry enough - she is hungry there is no way she isnt. I dont want her starving every second day to raise her food drive, she is a small pupp and is skinny already, too skinny. K9: she is not hungry, or she would eat it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 K9: Something is wrong, she isnt in food drive... Unless I starve her thats how it is. She had food available all the time when she was at the breeders. She is left with a small amount of food when I go to work - usually a bone. She often eats it. She is too young to be only fed twice a day imo. K9: the desired outcome for step one is that the millisecond the dog looks at you it heres & learns the word yes. Through its own actions.As soon as you have achieved this, you go for a momentary sit. Not 10 - 15 seconds of nothing... We have gone pass this, Im building the time. K9: thats a later excercise, the dog hasnt got the hang of it & your at 10 - 15 seconds... This is a mistake.. She is good for 5-10 seconds no problems at all, I just cant seem to progress from there. K9: yes. I guess this was my mistake I wasnt talking to her. K9: she is not hungry, or she would eat it... She will eat it eventually if I just let her have it inside the house and/or Im around, or better still if she can show Rex how she can have it and he cant... I dont want that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 She is left with a small amount of food when I go to work - usually a bone. She often eats it.She is too young to be only fed twice a day imo. K9: twice a day is fine... No food should be given that is ever outside the triangle... It will make the triangle seen as a pain... We have gone pass this, Im building the time. K9: no you havent moved past it as you lost drive... You went to fast asked too much... You may be building time, but your pup isnt... She is good for 5-10 seconds no problems at all, I just cant seem to progress from there. K9: you are not supposed to, your supposed to get split second attention, then the sit, then the stay, attention for longer periods will come in THESE excercises... 5 seconds is too long at this stage... I guess this was my mistake I wasnt talking to her. K9: no, the mistake is that you are asking too much, back off her & she will surge ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Thanks, Ill try tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Ali: As the the rule is time before distance, I'm guessing you are still by her side? Yes? If that is the case, can you just pull up on the leash and get her back into a sit as soon as she moves to the drop position? Teach her she has to stay sitting to be released to the food? K9: 100 correct, Mysz just needs to get the motivation back by shortening the time ie lowering expectations... I trust Bear is good in the TOT now? Edited July 13, 2006 by K9 Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Those high expectations of mine are letting me down every time. But after I read this You are looking to repeat this until when you place the food down, the dog looks at you & not the food. I can have most dogs do this in 2 – 4 days. The dog does not need to give you total attention unless you're looking for competition level results. Now its time to add the sit command when you stand next to the dog. As soon as the dog sits, you verbal mark with yes. Bend down & unleash the dog, give OK command so the dog may eat. When you have a good sit, as that is what is being built here, you can add time, by saying stay & then verbal mark yes after 10 seconds, then 60 seconds & so on. Reading the above makes me think I should have the dog sitting nicely and be ready for extention of time in lets say a week, I have been doing this for 3 weeks and Im failing my dog badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) uppsss double post Edited July 13, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Trying to do too much too quickly is my problem in a lot of dog training So don't feel too bad myszka! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Kavik dont you understand? she should be sitting, droping, coming and chasing the toy like crazy. All under distractions. After all she is 3 and a bit months old and I have her for 3 weeks! ;) Ill be bragging tomorrow if I do it right tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 M : Reading the above makes me think I should have the dog sitting nicely and be ready for extention of time in lets say a week, K9: & others have, just dont push her too fast, she is a pup, baby steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Ali: As the the rule is time before distance, I'm guessing you are still by her side? Yes? If that is the case, can you just pull up on the leash and get her back into a sit as soon as she moves to the drop position? Teach her she has to stay sitting to be released to the food? K9: 100 correct, Mysz just needs to get the motivation back by shortening the time ie lowering expectations... I trust Bear is good in the TOT now? Yep, PERFECT! ;) Sit, stays, drops, comes.... anything I ask. He is a good boy!!!! Actually, recently in the TOT he has been so good, when asked to drop he flops his legs out in front on him so fast his belly smashes the ground with a thud Very cute to watch! How did you go last night Monika Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I think she is doing OK, sits nicely, looks at me etc but I cant seem to progress with the time even by 1 second. K9 meant to show me what to do at the info night and I guess we forgot. Oh well, I'll will have to use my imagination and improvise myself. I mean Rex can do all sorts of thing and I can leave him near the food for several minutes while Im inside etc so I think somewhere along the lines I have done it right with him, hopefully Ill manage with her as well. FD and jbbb seen me do it at their place, not that they are experts but maybe they can tell us what they thougth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I have read this a few times and have just read all the posts and questions again but i need to confirm something Do you say yes when the dog looks at you, and then release the tieback and then say ok for the dog to eat? When you release the tieback what if the dog goes straight for the food? Do you release the tieback at the same time saying ok? I can't wait to try this but I want to do it right from the word go... Also, I have two dogs they eat separately (one inside one outside)... How do I work around this? Do i do one then another and in which order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 Do you say yes when the dog looks at you, and then release the tieback and then say ok for the dog to eat? When you release the tieback what if the dog goes straight for the food? Do you release the tieback at the same time saying ok? K9: yes, the word yes becomes the verbal marker for the correct action, so is carried on throughout all training... Ok, is the word that signifies that the dog can do what it likes... Also, I have two dogs they eat separately (one inside one outside)... How do I work around this? Do i do one then another and in which order? K9: Keep doing this until both dogs can do a sit/stay off leash for three minutes, then begin the triangle with both dogs in the back yard together,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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