Triangle Of Temptation

[Steve K9Pro]

Ok. I read the initial post and have read this entire thread.... I really really wish I came across this method a week ago... actually a year ago!

This is how I understand it from reading this entire thread as well as the OP - please correct me if I have any part of this "wrong":

For multiple pet households, do this separately with each dog away (isolated) from the other dog(s).

K9: Yep thats correct.

1. Tie dog down

2. Ignore dog + prepare food

3. Continue to ignore dog, place food bowl at a distance where it's "drive" for the food isn't severe ... almost like the food is for someone else other than itself. Once the food it at a distance where the dog stops reacting...

K9: Get the dog interested in the food, create drive by teasing the dog with the food, then walk away with the food until the dog regains focus. Then put it down.

3. Return to the dog (if possible, the right hand side of the dog) do not say a word - this forms the TRIANGLE OF TEMPTATION. Do not be "at an angle" be by the side of the dog.

K9: By just behind the dog slightly so it needs to break focus with the food & give it to you.

4. Once the dog looks at you (the split second it does), say YES (or use a clicker if that is your preferred method). If needed, make a noise or use its name however it must look at you willingly. Say YES as soon as it does.

K9: Avoid making a noise, it works best when the dog figures out the right move all o its own.

5. Unleash/Release the dog and then say OK -- OK is the key command for "Freedom".

K9: Yes freedom & to partake in the reward.

Now go inside. If you cannot let the dog "out of your sight", consider doing this inside a garage or inside the house or another "safe" place. If this is not viable, double "tie down" the dog. 1st tied down is secured to a stake or similar. 2nd tie down is secure to a "secure" object. Use the 2nd tie down as your "release".

After the first 2-4 days (or when appropriate)

REPEAT STEPS 1 - 4

5. Command SIT

6. Say YES once it is seated (or use clicker if that is your preferred method)

7. Unleash/Release the dog then say OK

Next Level - TIME

REPEAT STEPS 1 - 6

7. Say STAY

8. Once the dog has been in STAY for 10 seconds say YES

Increase this time each feed time 10 second to 60 seconds to up to 3 minutes. Also vary the STAY time.

9. Unleash/Release the dog then say OK

If the dog breaks out of the STAY before you give the release/freedom command of OK - start from Step 1.

Next Level - DISTANCE

REPEAT STEPS 1 - 8

9. Now increase the distance between you and the dog whilst the dog is tied down. Increase in increments of 1 - 2 metres.

10. Unleash/Release the dog then say OK

Next Level - DISTRACTION

When you find yourself able to wander inside while the food bowl sits there UN touched by the dog, you're ready to add distraction.

REPEAT STEPS 1 - 9

10. Allow a second dog now to eat from its own bowl perhaps, remain out of site for a period of time, and change the environment to outside the front gate perhaps. These are just some ways to add distraction.

11. Unleash/Release the dog then say OK

Feel free to substitute the food for another treasure, such as a treat, ball, toy or an open back door or front gate.

It is quite safe to fast a dog for 24 hours to "prompt" it's food drive. When you do, make sure plenty of water is available and it doesn't have access to any other way to procure food.

I hope I got the above right ?

K9: Yep thats all pretty good! Well done.

My question: I'm a Pet Sitter as my profession. Unfortunately, I'm not always booked for long stays of 4+ nights. There are a few clients who may only book me for 3 nights or less. A common problem a lot of my clients have (and thus I can have), is pulling at the leash. Are you possibly able to email me ( [email protected] ) a PDF or something that I can on-send to all my clients ?

K9: Yep sure can send you our copy of the TOT, send me an email on [email protected] & we will get it off to you!

Also, any tips you can give me to help me establish myself as the pack leader instantly with a dog esp. when I meet them for the first time? Or how I can re-establish myself as pack leader whenever I am pet sitting ? I already ignore behaviour that I do not desire, reward good behaviour (treats and/or verbally), try to tire the dog(s) out thru running/exercise.....

K9: If you havent already, book a place in my workshop in QLD (if there are places left), you will get loads of ideas there.

[AustGirl]

This has probably been answered and I've just forgotten the answer.

The dogs I am doing this with I have another week left of care before handing back to their family... I did this today. The first dog I know has incredible food drive as he is always trying to eat the other dog's food. The first dog is named Stitch and is Black Lab. Stitch was tied down fine. No qualms about it. How do I know when I have in the "right" frame of mind as such ? He would pull on the tie down then just sit and watch me put the food down. Focused on the food. Should I put it at a distance where he no longer is fully focused on the food? iIs it still Stitch in "Food Drive" if he is still watching the food bowl?

Also, he was automatically in sit naturally because he was tied down... did "reward" him with the YES when he looked at me without prompts .. then released him and said OK.

The other dog is a Jack Russel. Due to Stitch being such an alpha dog, he is a rather submissive dog. Had Russell tied down and he was fine with that whilst I prepared the food. My first problem is that he isn't used to someone coming up to him WITH the food bowl. He is a little scared even.. but he was in food drive once I put the bowl down.. then when I went to stand next to him he became very submissive. He would "down" or even to the point where he would roll over (thus showing me his belly which I know is instantly a submissive gesture). I would correct him (no words, just moulded him into a SIT) and he finally "got it" that he was meant to be in a SIT. When I said YES (to reward him looking at me without prompting) .. he thought THAT was the "FREEDOM" word and whilst tied would dive for the food. Naturally the food was just out of reach. I would start all over again. Wait for him to look at me .. YES.. and did this a couple of times because he still thought YES was the "Freedom" word (it hasn't been used like that by me). Eventually the little guy got it. Let him eat in peace whilst I distracted (played with) Stitch (who usually is quite keen to eat Russell's food).

I hope I'm doing it right.

I'll film it tomorrow.

I've already emailed you about the workshop etc :D

Edited October 15, 2009 by AussieVee

[Steve K9Pro]

The dogs I am doing this with I have another week left of care before handing back to their family... I did this today. The first dog I know has incredible food drive as he is always trying to eat the other dog's food. The first dog is named Stitch and is Black Lab. Stitch was tied down fine. No qualms about it. How do I know when I have in the "right" frame of mind as such ?

K9: when you have focus from the dog, in the early stages it only need be a glance. Your not at any stage trying to teach long bouts of attention.

He would pull on the tie down then just sit and watch me put the food down. Focused on the food. Should I put it at a distance where he no longer is fully focused on the food? iIs it still Stitch in "Food Drive" if he is still watching the food bowl?

K9: The action of looking at the food bowl doesn't mean he is in drive, drive is an adrenalin based behaviour.

Also, he was automatically in sit naturally because he was tied down... did "reward" him with the YES when he looked at me without prompts .. then released him and said OK.

K9: I am concerned about the term your using "tied down". The tie out or back tie is a leash maybe 6 feet long, the sit action is offered by the dog, not forced due to Alpha pressure, physical ties etc.

The other dog is a Jack Russel. Due to Stitch being such an alpha dog, he is a rather submissive dog. Had Russell tied down and he was fine with that whilst I prepared the food. My first problem is that he isn't used to someone coming up to him WITH the food bowl. He is a little scared even.. but he was in food drive once I put the bowl down.. then when I went to stand next to him he became very submissive. He would "down" or even to the point where he would roll over (thus showing me his belly which I know is instantly a submissive gesture).

K9: then he had dropped out of food drive so you wont get the desired result, I would start by moving the food closer.

I would correct him (no words, just moulded him into a SIT) and he finally "got it" that he was meant to be in a SIT.

K9: Ok but he isn't meant to sit or be placed into a position, he need only give yoiu eye contact & it must be totally offered, not guided, lured, placed or forced. Perhaps disregard the replies to this post & only use the steps I provided.

When I said YES (to reward him looking at me without prompting)

K9: It was with prompting, you placed him in a sit, his offered behaviour was to roll over, I would have ignored that behaviour teaching him it wont pay, then he will offer something else, be patient, it doesn't have to happen at light speed.

This type of learning is instinctual & success is gained via self control & interaction with the alpha, this means it will take some quiet time for the dog to run through the options it has & chose the right one.

[AustGirl]

K9: I am concerned about the term your using "tied down". The tie out or back tie is a leash maybe 6 feet long, the sit action is offered by the dog, not forced due to Alpha pressure, physical ties etc.

Oh.. my bad.. using the wrong term. They aren't "tied down"... they tied out.

K9: then he had dropped out of food drive so you wont get the desired result, I would start by moving the food closer.

:-) As I said, he would only get "in" food drive once the bowl was on the ground so I've been putting distance after it is on the ground (since this is the only time he reacts). (Distance until he isn't pulling at the leash/lead as much.) I've no idea why he is scared (timid) of me when I approach with the food even tho' its the same bowl I've been using each and every time... and he knows there is always food in it. And he drops out of food drive again when I stand next to him (as you noted due to his submissive behaviour)...

Yes Stitch is in a separate part of the yard where he can't distract Russell or go for Russell's food (as Stitch will keep eating and eating and eating if he has his way LOL).

K9: Ok but he isn't meant to sit or be placed into a position, he need only give yoiu eye contact & it must be totally offered, not guided, lured, placed or forced. Perhaps disregard the replies to this post & only use the steps I provided.

I think I will really have to start with basics with Russell and encourage the family to really work with him. Stitch is the Alpha Dog out of the two and is doing well with TOT. Russell is rather submissive and will roll over showing his belly or go into a drop. I have no troubles getting Russell to look at me at all.. it's the behaviour he does whilst he is looking at me that is of concern to me because I feel that when I say YES ... I'm also re-inforcing the submissive behaviour (as he looks at me whilst doing it).

Thus the reason why I was "moulding" him.

Ok. Patience. Done :-) I won't say YES until he is looking at me and NOT being submissive. ;-) I think I'll do Russell first tomorrow so I can give him the time he needs for TOT as Stitch is "getting it" quicker.

Edited October 16, 2009 by AussieVee

[Pete.the.dog]

Hi Steve,

I just spent an hour reading articles on your website - I've got to say - fantastic procrastination tool when you have exams to study for

Ever thought of moving to Adelaide? :D

I have just started TOT with Pete - an unknown mut - he's about 17 months and I've had him for about 7 months. I think he is part wolfhound or deerhound. But my issue is - I already have him sitting for his food and staying while I put it down until he looks at me and gets the ok to eat. My issue is I'm not sure if I really have him in 'drive' even feeding him only once a day, he is never really excited for his food if that makes sense, he will go to it when I release him, but it is not as if he's distracted by it when I bring it out and making him sit. Do you have any suggestions of how I can increase that drive, the second time I fed him less and he was a little more eager for the third meal, but doing it daily I don't really feel comfortable reducing his food overall, as he is a skinny dog as it is. Also I often leave kongs filled with food etc when I go to work to occupy him, and I haven't been doing this due to TOT but it's something I would like to be able to keep doing (leaving food for him when I leave).

Sorry a hope this makes sense, my brain turns to mush around exams

[Steve K9Pro]

Hi Steve,

I just spent an hour reading articles on your website - I've got to say - fantastic procrastination tool when you have exams to study for :rolleyes:

K9: well big changes coming soon, so keep your eyes PEELED!!!

Ever thought of moving to Adelaide?

K9: No but if people asking me to was anything to go by, I would have to!

I have just started TOT with Pete - an unknown mut - he's about 17 months and I've had him for about 7 months. I think he is part wolfhound or deerhound. But my issue is - I already have him sitting for his food and staying while I put it down until he looks at me and gets the ok to eat. My issue is I'm not sure if I really have him in 'drive' even feeding him only once a day, he is never really excited for his food if that makes sense, he will go to it when I release him, but it is not as if he's distracted by it when I bring it out and making him sit. Do you have any suggestions of how I can increase that drive, the second time I fed him less and he was a little more eager for the third meal, but doing it daily I don't really feel comfortable reducing his food overall, as he is a skinny dog as it is. Also I often leave kongs filled with food etc when I go to work to occupy him, and I haven't been doing this due to TOT but it's something I would like to be able to keep doing (leaving food for him when I leave).

Sorry a hope this makes sense, my brain turns to mush around exams

K9: yep I think I have an idea of what you mean.

When you taught him to sit & wait etc its often in a process that diminishes drive, such as the "see saw" method of you trying to put the food down whilst you command sit, he gets as the bowl moves down then you move the bowl up & so on.

So the food coming out does not trigger food drive but a calm out of drive dog.

The problem is that, with out drive you are limited to how much he will want to learn, which will limit how much he will actually learn.

I would be changing everything by fasting him one day (ask the procedure for this if you not sure), then g out with some food in your hand & play a game where he has to chase it & he gets a little bit by lunging & chasing it. Then when he is really hyped up throw some food in his bowl & let him dive on it.

Progress this game back into a game where he gets tied up first then you tease him with the food, look for him getting driven for the food & merge into my program.

There needs to be adrenalin to have drive, let me know how you go.

[genolium]

I will have my Amstaff puppy at home in a few weeks time. Can I start the TOT whilst he is so young? Or should i wait til i have started obedence classes? Should I teach him to sit before attempting the TOT?

[Steve K9Pro]

I will have my Amstaff puppy at home in a few weeks time. Can I start the TOT whilst he is so young? Or should i wait til i have started obedence classes? Should I teach him to sit before attempting the TOT?

K9: The first thing I would advise as far as training is concerned is to start the TOT, day one when he gets home. This is a great non pressure way of teaching all the things you want him to learn.

[dogdude]

Hi K9

Would you go as far to say that the methods used in most obedience clubs would be detremental to those used in TOT? I would have thought that they were completely opposing methods. (harnessing drive v quelling it in most cases)

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Hey DD, I think the TOT is miles away from your conventional check chain type club style of training, I want the dog to learn drive but also self control.

But some clubs are really taking up training in drive & doing well with it.

My training in drive programs are even further away form check chain supression methods but many times the dogs cant succeed due to previous training which has taught the dog to stay out of drive because drive > excitement > adrenalin has brought corrections in the past.

Other times people are the problems as they see their dogs confidence building & are scared that they wont be able to control it.

For dogs with low to moderate drive, you can get away with suppression methods only, for dogs with higher drives, it usually causes an imbalance which leads to other problems.

Learning mode is triggered or driven by reward or discomfort, dogs are hedonists (pleasure seeking pain avoiding) meaning that to create behaviour plasticity, you need to provide positive or negative motivation.

It has been for a long time thought that the onl real way to teach was to add discomfort, we know more now. lol..

[ness]

Ok I have a question for you - if it is my understanding you can use the TOT to teach the dog to focus on you in the presence of something that they really desire. What if you want the to look at the object i.e. your teaching the dog a directed retrieve and you only want to release a dog who is committed to the object so you know they are going to retrieve the correct item (i.e. the correct glove in utility), but also translates to things like looking at a jump to find the dogs line for agility. I am just curious if you can then build enough value to the dog for looking at the object rather than focussing on you.

I considered teaching my youngster TOT but didn't for that reason but I wonder if it is possible. I wanted to build value for looking at the object to remove me from the picture. My older girl was taught to focus on me and I had great difficulty shifting that focus onto the item.

Any thoughts K9? If you require clarification of what I am asking - ask away and I will try and explain myself a bit better.

[genolium]

K9 as you said i should start TOT as soon as my puppy is home, when i start obedience training after vaccinations should i find a trainer/club that uses drive in training or with the check chain method? Can you recommend either in Adelaide??

[Steve K9Pro]

N: Ok I have a question for you - if it is my understanding you can use the TOT to teach the dog to focus on you in the presence of something that they really desire.

K9: Yes and many more things too!

What if you want the to look at the object i.e. your teaching the dog a directed retrieve and you only want to release a dog who is committed to the object so you know they are going to retrieve the correct item (i.e. the correct glove in utility), but also translates to things like looking at a jump to find the dogs line for agility. I am just curious if you can then build enough value to the dog for looking at the object rather than focussing on you.

K9: Yep sure you can, but keep in mind the TOT isn't the only way to train everything, it is s foundation program that helps teach owners & dogs communication, trust & a reward system plus other things.

But it can also be great to add your competition patterns in at meal time, so teach either in or outside the TOT regime then add the moves back in at meal time to practice.

I considered teaching my youngster TOT but didn't for that reason but I wonder if it is possible.

k9: I would because it is a great way to teach markers & release & also build drive with self control.

I wanted to build value for looking at the object to remove me from the picture. My older girl was taught to focus on me and I had great difficulty shifting that focus onto the item.

K9: This is not the way I like to train, as it gives me very little control over the exercise, meaning very hard t improve or modify the dogs technique when the reward is controlled by the dog. Any time you interfere it will either drop drive or you become the fun police.

Does that make sense?

[Steve K9Pro]

G: K9 as you said i should start TOT as soon as my puppy is home, when i start obedience training after vaccinations should i find a trainer/club that uses drive in training or with the check chain method?

K9: Look this is a tricky one without getting to detailed, yes & or no.

First I don't use check chains at all, I will say that they can work, we just choose not to use them.

The training in drive programs I use, I designed myself, after many years of working with dogs, working with other trainers & reading, researching & research & development, I have come up with a start to finish system that we use very successfully.

Next I will say this, the method is heavily flawed in that, if you dog has overly weak nerves or very low drive, it wont work.

I have built steps into my programs that get the weakest of nerve dogs working in drive but there are always those that trigger into fear based drives before we can trigger our positive based drives & then the training isn't reliable.

This is the flaw with training in drive.

Can you recommend either in Adelaide??

K9: I have not worked personally with any trainer in SA that trains domestic or pet dogs.

I feel the best idea is to go to someone who will get your dog trained, let them evaluate the dog & offer the method they feel best.

But of course use the TOT!

Edited June 7, 2011 by K9Pro

[Cuchulain]

Max (Rhodesian Ridgeback, aged 13 weeks) has been with me for 4 weeks. We've been to puppy school (who've never heard of TOT!) and the Port Elizabeth Kennel Club puppy obedience classes (where I've yet to ask about TOT). I read this thread this morning and decided that this was what we needed and started at lunch time. Max is still on 3 meals a day.

This is the first time he's been tied and he accepted it without any problems. The food dish was placed about 1.5m from him. He was watching it relentlessly until I came to his side. He promptly looked directly into my eyes and then sat, not removing his gaze from mine. Is it normal for a dog to be so quick on the uptake? He has been taught to sit and we are working down, but I just wondered if this was normal?

[Trojanowski]

Ok. I read the initial post and have read this entire thread.... I really really wish I came across this method a week ago... actually a year ago! :D

Next Level - DISTRACTION

When you find yourself able to wander inside while the food bowl sits there UN touched by the dog, you're ready to add distraction.

REPEAT STEPS 1 - 9

10. Allow a second dog now to eat from its own bowl perhaps, remain out of site for a period of time, and change the environment to outside the front gate perhaps. These are just some ways to add distraction.

Hi K9,

Just want to start off by saying deepest thanks for making this information available. I was recommended to this post by our dog behaviourist and have started this a few weeks ago seeing remarkable improvements.

I have read through all the threads but still have a few questions I hope you're able to clarify:

(Referring to the above quote when introducing the level of distraction such as the other dog)

1. When practicing the TOT with two dogs together (distraction);

Do you start with one dog, do the TOT, then do the other dog, then leave for the dogs to finish eating etc?

2. Again while practicing the TOT with two dogs together... (Both have reached the level of concentration without distraction).

What if whilst beginning the TOT with the first dog, the second dog is going crazy because of the feeding for the other, do you ignore the second dog wait until the first dog is calm with the other trying to lunge for the others food etc, then wait for eye contact 'yes' then release. Once the first dog is eating, now address the second dog with the TOT. Is this the correct method in addressing two dogs together? Or should they start from scratch (without distraction) if either are showing inappropriate behaviour because of the other dog?

Hope this makes sense, sometimes hard to explain!

Edited December 7, 2009 by kustner

[Steve K9Pro]

Max (Rhodesian Ridgeback, aged 13 weeks) has been with me for 4 weeks. We've been to puppy school (who've never heard of TOT!)

K9: lol well aren't they missing out! If you give them outr contact details, we will be happy to provide them a copy they can copy & hand out, free!

This is the first time he's been tied and he accepted it without any problems. The food dish was placed about 1.5m from him. He was watching it relentlessly until I came to his side. He promptly looked directly into my eyes and then sat, not removing his gaze from mine. Is it normal for a dog to be so quick on the uptake? He has been taught to sit and we are working down, but I just wondered if this was normal?

K9: Yep quite normal, specially with pups that have no bad habits! Glad it is going well for you!

[Steve K9Pro]

Hi K9,

Just want to start off by saying deepest thanks for making this information available. I was recommended to this post by our dog behaviourist and have started this a few weeks ago seeing remarkable improvements.

K9: I am really glad to hear that it is going well for you!!!

I have read through all the threads but still have a few questions I hope you're able to clarify:

K9: Sure.

(Referring to the above quote when introducing the level of distraction such as the other dog)

1. When practicing the TOT with two dogs together (distraction);

Do you start with one dog, do the TOT, then do the other dog, then leave for the dogs to finish eating etc?

K9: Once you have the procedure taught to each dog separately, then go out, tie out both dogs bring out both meals, place them & start the work, you dont have to & I dont recommend releasing each dog at once. Vary who goes first, release the best behaved first. This will also increase drive a little

2. Again while practicing the TOT with two dogs together... (Both have reached the level of concentration without distraction).

What if whilst beginning the TOT with the first dog, the second dog is going crazy because of the feeding for the other, do you ignore the second dog wait until the first dog is calm with the other trying to lunge for the others food etc, then wait for eye contact 'yes' then release. Once the first dog is eating, now address the second dog with the TOT. Is this the correct method in addressing two dogs together? Or should they start from scratch (without distraction) if either are showing inappropriate behaviour because of the other dog?

K9: The one that is going crazy still needs some time on its own to fully grasp the concept of self control. You can start by having dog two quite a distance away until it gains self control. Then move in.

Hope this makes sense, sometimes hard to explain!

K9: No worries, clear as (mud lol)

[Prydenjoy]

What if you can't do it every day? I usually get Berri to sit and wait at his bowl until he is released, sometimes I'll do some quick heel work and give him his bowl for a jackpot, but usually I'm out and back inside within about 30 seconds before my baby comes to follow me outside. I can probably do it in her nap some days, but as I work 4 days a week I'm not able to spare the time on those days. Will I get progress if I mix it up with what I have been doing so far?

I also get him to wait before getting in the car etc, but nothing as structured as your program.

Is there a way to incorporate my 17 month old baby into it so that he has more respect for her as well? He's very appeasing to me in general, but I'd like him to see her as more of an authority figure - It's hard, where I'm asking for sits for food, toys whatever, she's just handing them straight to him! Of course I supervise them etc but it would be nice to know whether there is a way to get a dog to see a child that is handing over every resource for nothing as someone to be respected.

[huski]

What if you can't do it every day? I usually get Berri to sit and wait at his bowl until he is released, sometimes I'll do some quick heel work and give him his bowl for a jackpot, but usually I'm out and back inside within about 30 seconds before my baby comes to follow me outside. I can probably do it in her nap some days, but as I work 4 days a week I'm not able to spare the time on those days. Will I get progress if I mix it up with what I have been doing so far?

I also get him to wait before getting in the car etc, but nothing as structured as your program.

Is there a way to incorporate my 17 month old baby into it so that he has more respect for her as well? He's very appeasing to me in general, but I'd like him to see her as more of an authority figure - It's hard, where I'm asking for sits for food, toys whatever, she's just handing them straight to him! Of course I supervise them etc but it would be nice to know whether there is a way to get a dog to see a child that is handing over every resource for nothing as someone to be respected.

Hey Jeanne - just speaking from my own experience, if I'm in a hurry I still do TOT. My dogs are at the stage where they don't need to be on a tie out so it's quick to do it. You don't have to make them stay for more than 30 seconds if you are in a hurry.