Check / Choker Chains

[Kirty]

I am about to start back at the local dog obedience club with my two dogs. I used to go there but stopped for the last two years for family reasons. Anyhoo, the point of the story is that this club uses check chains (or any collar with a tighten/release function - so it can be webbing, chain, etc.). After reading lots on these forums, I am now starting to wonder if this is the best method? With my older dog, I use to attend a different dog school which used Halties. Now they were great until you took the Halti off! I don't believe they really taught her anything. The main reasons I have chosen this club are because its very local, it is very affordable, you can take more than one dog, and they offer agility. I want to try agility and flyball with my older dog (BC cross) but I mainly just want to refresh my Lab cross's skills and give him an outing!

What are everyone's opinions on training with check chains and obedience clubs in Vic? Does anyone recommend any dog schools in the area? I have limited funds so anything expensive is unfortunately just not an option right now. I am in SE suburbs of Melbourne and the school I will be attending is Knox Obedience Club. Thanks.

[BC4ME]

Any piece of training equipment used incorrectly can do harm, this includes flat collars, halties, check chains, e-collars etc.

At our club we use whatever the owner wants to use as it is there dog not ours. But unlucky for you I'm in Brisbane.

If you are not happy about using any piece of equipment don't use it, Remember your dog is exactly that "YOUR DOG".

I use a check chain and have no issues using it. My dogs are happy to wear them and do not seemed to be bothered by them.

Good luck

[NaturallyWild]

I tend to us a martingale (nylon style with chain link) but have it set to just short of neck circumference, it's more for a safety thing (less likely to slip this collar than a flat collar) rather than a correction.

For dog clubs - go to as many in the area as you can and watch what they do to see if your happy with how they treat the dogs and the results that are achieved

Two sites to check for clubs (more positive based, less likely/unlikely to use correction)

K9 events

APDT

[petmezz]

as mentioned, any equipment used on a dog can be used incorrectly and cause harm. i don't have a problem with check chains, if used properly, however i have great conserns if they are not used correctly and this also goes for halty type collers to.

as for the club, do you feel conftable their? have you been and observed the training nights? do they allow positive reinforcment, as well as the check chain? do you know the experiance of the instructors?

if you don't like the use of a check chain i would look at a limeted slip coller to fit into what the club wants, this way your not going to harm the dog by giving it a too big check, and you may fell happier.

[Griffo]

i started my girl off with a check collar, but i wouldn't put one on her ever again after reading about the damage they can do even when used CORRECTLY!! Although i know a lot of who people love them and would never change, but that is just my opinion.

[Kirty]

I used to attend this club and they were fine for what I wanted at the time. I have always used a check chain and never had any problems with it, although it doesn't really work in real-life situation! When training, my dogs heel perfectly. But when we go out for a walk, they both rip my arms off!

[jaybeece]

What are everyone's opinions on training with check chains and obedience clubs in Vic? Does anyone recommend any dog schools in the area? I have limited funds so anything expensive is unfortunately just not an option right now. I am in SE suburbs of Melbourne and the school I will be attending is Knox Obedience Club. Thanks.

Check chains, when used correctly are very effective. You need to make sure that the message you're sending to your dog is 100% clear though. I think the biggest issue with them is that not all dogs will feel a subtle correction from them which results in a "grey" shade of correction when it needs to be black/white. Hope that makes sense There's also the obvious risk of injury which can happen with any form of collar when misused.

I'm in class 3 at Knox and they've been wonderful. Not all the trainers are at the same level of knowledge, but all of them will go out of their way to help you.

[rugerfly]

originally when first starting out with my gsp (shes very driven :D ) at an obedience club, they didnt allow check chains so i had a choice of a halti or a half check thingy. the half check thingy didnt do a dam thing and now i know why. AFter now seeing how they are supposed to be fitted, i can see that it would work a treat and require little force.

I found that the halti was too much of a distraction for her and she was too busy trying to avoid it.

Try the limited martingale half check thingy but needs to be correctly fitted.

[Erny]

I have always used a check chain and never had any problems with it, although it doesn't really work in real-life situation! When training, my dogs heel perfectly. But when we go out for a walk, they both rip my arms off!

I'd suggest it's not a case of 'the check chain not working properly', but rather 'the check chain not being properly worked' ..... perhaps amongst other things in view of the additional distractions whilst out walking. Training needs to be generalised to different environments, otherwise you will find these sorts of situations. IE. "My dog is good here, but not there."

Edited May 12, 2006 by Erny

[Staff'n'Toller]

Kirty you can train at Knox without a check chain- friends of mine used to train their dogs there and they used nylon martingales i.e. Blackdog Training Collar.

They can't force you to use any piece of equipment if you do not consent.

Other clubs you could try are Sherbrooke- they are a positive club using flat collars or halters or no pull harnesses.

Or Croydon Obedience who have a big agility and flyball contingent and are moving to clickers, targetting and other positives, a few of their trainers are undertaking the Delta CGC Instructors course this year.

Cheers,

Mel.

[Mystiqview]

To sound controversal.... I use a check chain on all my dogs during training...

Well to say use.... they wear one.. I trained them all on flat collars. So really the check/choke never gets used..

For me, the chain is only a train aid.. when the chain is on.. we train and we want excellent, it comes off after training and back to flat collar...and general house rules only..

If your dog is already used to being trained in a flat collar...and does not need the "use" (loosly speaking) of a correction chain... the chain does not get used.

I hope all that makes sense.

[smokeysue]

Hi, never used a check chain on our Rotty, only flat collar. He pulled my arm off when walking. So tried a check chain, and pulled the arm off again. Started obedience school, and have learned how to use the check chain properly without hurting him at all, and have never needed to yank it up to correct him yet. It is the noise of the chain i think, tho lots of people say, rubbish.They are not using it properly. Don't need it now. Just a flat collar. Sue

Edited May 13, 2006 by smokeysue

[Kirty]

Thanks again for the comments and advice. I think the problem with the dogs pulling my arms off is that I can't correct two dogs at the same time while walking! I usually walk them together by myself and as you know, you need two arms to work a check chain! I guess my eventual aim is for both dogs to be so well trained, they walk at a heel with no need for any training device! I am going down tomorrow to see if I can sign up at Knox. If I am not happy there, I will go to Croydon! Thanks so much again!

[Kavik]

If you are having problems walking both at once, it might be easier to walk one at a time for a while. Then you can concentrate on getting them walking well alone, then try walking them together once they have mastered that. You may want to think about where you want them to walk - both on left, one left one right, both on right, if on the same side, which one closer to you. If you walk them in the same position, it will be easier as they will know where they are supposed to be.

For me, the easier option is to walk one dog at a time, that way they get their individual attention and training time, and their lead walking/social/training habits are contained and they do not learn bad habits off each other.

[Kirty]

I wish I had that option, but right now I am just too busy. I like to take them for a long walk and then a free run, otherwise I feel bad. They are active dogs and they love their walks/runs. I could always use a halti but I really don't think they teach the dog anything.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Kirty I have multiple dogs and do use halters when I'm walking more than one.

Makes for a much more relaxing walk for me!

Mel.

[lab and poodle]

My older dog was trained on a flat collar, uses a flat collar, has trialled (succesfully) in a flat collar, walks loose lead on a flat collar and will never ever see a check chain again. Check chains rely on the use of pain at some stage of their use to be effective. My new poodle will never ever see a check chain. You have to go a distance in Melbourne to go to a positive (only) club, but S herbrooke up in the hills is pretty good to me. I travel from the SE suburbs, and will probably go out of it in a coffin.It must be the prettiest training ground in Australia, with a really relaxed atmosphere.We don't do the old style stuff of making you feel inadequate, stupid or your dog a retard.If you can train there, with the duck pooh, the barbecue, the crowds of people having parties in summer, your dog will think a normal walk or a trial is a piece of proverbial. One of the earlier instructers of the club, who is now deceased managed to title, some with AOC's, a representative of all groups bar one using positives. I heard some good stuff about how she used to approach the choice between chokers etc,and it seemed pretty forthright stuff to me. I cna't print it here becuase it is a tad on the rude side.While the club is pet orientated, I can tell you that at least two of the instructors (one of them is me) look out for the next dog going through to trial. I had fantastic one on one support with my dog when I was trialling. Now he just gets to prove me wrong all the time by never misbehaving when I want him too. He is such a good dog, and is a credit to his breeder, and this training method. He got kicked out of J+P school in NZ!!